To clarify the author of the message, I have put their name and :    after it.

 

5/1/2000   8:51pm

Steffani Murray:

I wonder if this is what happened in Cal's universe?

In the Beginning was the Plan
And then came the Assumptions
And the Assumptions were without form
And the Plan was completely without substance
And the darkness was upon the face of the workers
And they spoke among themselves, saying
" It is a crock of shit and it stinketh."
And the workers went into their supervisors and sayeth,
"It is a pail of dung and none may abide the odor thereof."
And the Supervisors went into their Managers and sayeth unto them,
"It is a container of excrement and it is very strong,
such that none may abide by it".
And the Managers went unto their Directors and sayeth,
" It is a vessel of fertilizer, and none may abide its strength."
And the Directors spoke among themselves, saying to one another,
" It contains that which aids plant growth and it is very strong."
And the Directors went unto the Vice Presidents and sayeth unto them,
" It promotes growth and is very powerful."
And the Vice Presidents went unto the President and sayeth unto him,
" This new plan will actively promote the growth and efficiency of this Company,and in these areas in particular."
And the President looked upon the Plan, and saw that it was good,
And the Plan became Policy.
This is how Shit Happens.

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5/1/2000   10:48 pm

Caligastia:

Very Good Steffani - that isn't far wrong.

Here is the religious breakdown of $hit happens.

If $hit happens and you're Catholic - you deserved it.
If $hit happens and you're Protestant - let this $hit happen to someone elese.
If $hit happens and you're Jewish - Why does this $hit always happen to us.
If $hit happens and you're Hindu - This $hit has happened before.

Also, Murphy's Laws are Universal Constants and Murph is well known to the universe.

Cal

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5/2/2000   7:10am

Steffani Murray:

Well Cal...I know that Jesus has told us that if our "eye be single the whole body is full of light" and I believe Him.
Butt as a nurse I have had the opportunity to observe firsthand that when the asshole stops working due to bowel obstructions from any cause the whole body is full of shit...it is not a pretty sight or smell when bio-plumbing backs up. Sorry (you have no idea how much) that Murph surfs the Zuvuya circuit too...but it will all come out all right in the end I'm sure if Father gets His Way and eventually He always does. I have a whole catalog of religions relating to shit but I'll have to look them up...
If you are in the mood for jokes you should talk to Dennis.
He has a seemingly infinite supply of real knee slappers..
Only Love. Steffani.

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5/6/2000   3:25am

Caligastia:

To: Steve

Stephanie is neck deep in the UB and has the courage to look me in the eye knowing full well the poor things the book has to say about me. Furthermore, she's going to spend two days in the wilderness with one some consider The Devil. The lady has guts. Her motivations are, in my opinion,
primarily a search for truth. The Lair is an added bonus. When she leaves, she'll take whatever opinion she formulated and do whatever she thinks is appropriate. Dennis and David likewise are truth seekers who are going to spend a considerable amount of money and effort just getting here. Yet, for the last two years, I've heard from you occasionally and you're just up the block.

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5/6/2000   7:10pm

Steffani Murray:

Wow! My cable goes out for a day and lookit all the fun I miss.

Cal and all...On the mornings I wake up and find I've made a quantum leap,
I just look around for the script and read it...If it isn't interesting I just rewrite it! No carved in granite clinging to perceptual self identities related to bodies here...they get changed like suits of clothing. Besides there is only One of us playing lots of roles...how easy then to love another as oneself. What a Grand Illusion...sure feels "real"!
Sister Syrup Drip.


Hey... I'm probably lots older than Miracle and haven't had a menopausal moment yet...do you suppose that might have anything to do with the fact I don't get my giggles by laughing at others. Disparaging and disrespectful remarks made to anyone do not become humor no matter how many apologetics are proffered in the aftermath. I may poke fun at a religion or political system but not at those who espouse it.We are all Father's Kids but we don't all always act very mature. Only Truth is True.


Jan...You did miss a gift that without Jesus in your Mind and Heart or knowing Christ Micheal as your Father/Brother in time/space the magnitude of which you are unlikely to fathom. Here as in every encounter with a brother is an opportunity to offer kindness and understanding...
on a purely human level you've missed Cal's quirky sense of humor which I already appreciate greatly. We have taken gentle potshots at each other since day one especially over mental health and identity issues which he takes in a noticeably lighthearted manner. I think we both enjoy silliness which is a great antidote to taking oneself too seriously. Then again the core attitude of both parties is mutual respect and a willingness to trust as we have this chance to get to know one another better. He doesn't have to prove anything to me or do anything except be whoever he is. That is enough...
Only Love. Steffani.

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5/6/2000   7:16pm

Steffani Murray:

Dear Brother Dennis...You have a soul that makes YOU beautiful and wealthy beyond measure. All you need is love and you got an infinite supply...
xox Steffani.

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5/6/2000   7:38pm

Steffani Murray:

Steve...I don't know you but sometimes it takes a lot of willingness to hear "no" as an answer when it isn't what you want to hear. I do not hear Cal telling you "no" as much as that the time is not yet. There is a time for need to be fulfilled when it is no longer "need" but an assurance that the asked for is already given. You will also know then. He has told you words of truth that "Father has sent, directed and guided each of these people to this moment they choose to share with me". I think we are each aware of this in the depths of our being...and this event must unfold as planned.
Only Love, Light and Order. Steffani.

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5/7/2000   7:22am

Steffani Murray:

Hi Cinde...This (unconditional)LOVE stuff is soooo...addictive
It just feels wonderful to love and accept without judging.
There is a reason Christ Micheal as Jesus suggested that in such matters
we will receive as we have given. It has always been there to discover.

Well...it's Sunday morning and ok to do a little preaching...
Only Love (no hate...no duality) Steffani. (Meranda).

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05/07/00 at 7:32 am 

Steffani Murray:

Hi Alan...I enjoyed reading your message...but 5 times?
Brother...you REALLY wanted to get your point across.
As one who by virtue of earthplane work done is (technically)
entitled to have an opinion...I will offer to you the fact
that within the constructs of the world in psychology
the phenomenon of shared delusional systems is believed to be exceptionally rare.Thank You. Only Love. Steffani.

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05/07/00 at 10:25 am

Steffani Murray:

Hi Cal...I realize you make a point of not being an in depth student of the UB but that I do find it interesting reading. The first friend I ever had who admitted to being an incarnated Son from another universe wouldn't give me the UB when I was young(18 y.o.) because he said "they are lying about reincarnation". I should explain I "knew" by my opening to communication the book existed. ...I could "feel" this but I couldn't quite get the name well enough to look it up. My friend in this earthlife was a used book dealer...it gave him a good opportunity to meet truth seekers and other folks, too. He kept giving me other stuff as a distraction such as Oahspe. I'd go read the other things and report back that..."Bill,this isn't the one I'm trying to find."
It wasn't like the record store down the street didn't have a wall sized mural I asked about and was told..."Oh, that's Urantia." I figured that was something like Tolkien's Lord of the Rings because of the fandors and other fantasy qualities to the picture. So when I finally did find the UB and thought back to the fact that I was quite capable of missing messages on the wall in front of my face in those days that might have been a good time for me not to have the book yet.
My friend was an interesting person who taught me interesting ways to access information and send me on ...uh, little excursions when I'd whine "how do I know this isn't just my imagination?" He told me the people on his planet evolved from reptiles (not a fear thought for me I have always adored snakes ,turtles, and iguanas... all creatures actually). So I asked him to show me what they looked like expecting him to draw a picture or something.
He morphed on the spot (by projection) into a 9 foot tall turtlish type creature. This is the first time in my life I can remember taking a deep breath and telling myself...this is my friend no matter what he or it looks like at this moment. This was one of those real good "sit down and shut up" types of lessons. His opinion of our local universe Creator Son
was "He is very inexperienced". He found my devotion to "Jesus" amusing but was never belittling about this or any matter...probably because I'm open to learning and at the time could "sit on the fear".
Enough events like the one described and fear dissolves into trust and confidence in one's Creator. I think I once described more benign everyday aspects of my friendship with this person to Jan...but no matter.
I said all that to mention that the UB describes "architectural" worlds.
These are "made to order" planets to fill a particular purpose. It states that they are "heated and lighted from within" but the beings live mostly on the surfaces of them and the can sometimes support bio-organic life forms as well as morontial and spiritual forms. Jerusem (P.456) is one so designated. Anyway your comments about Nibiru as a "ship" evoked this rememberance about such worlds.
If you have time check out my response to Catherine over her's to Blackfeather over on ESG. I think some of the stuff we talk about is possibly of sufficient interest topically to some of the other folks to bring up here rather than "privately". I find my more 'unusual' life experiences have merely caused me to be more tolerant and accepting than most folks which is a valuable asset in my work settings but of course I can't talk about this type of thing in those places.
I can reassure those burdened by inordinate guilt and shame that God loves them ...which works well coming from a grounded certainty. I have really only had "permission" to be openly discussing these experiences openly for the past 3 years. The internet has helped me to find those I am meant to find...and you are one for whom I am grateful.
UBRON has helped a lot. So glad you showed up there...however briefly.
Perhaps this explains more of why I have zero consternation about flying across the country to trek into the wilderness with someone one of my 2 favorite spiritual texts refers to as "the devil". I was somewhat intrigued by the fact you made mention of the fact I would be coming "out there" prior to this trip even being planned or me having any intention of doing so. Mind control? Hardly! Amazing how the celestial 'connect the dots game' of the benign Divine x-files actually works...it confirms itself to me by synchrony of contacts by happenings overtly made from out of time. I finally got the 'memo' and everthing needful to pull it off at this level unfolded in perfect (if last minute) order. It is a material plane signature of Father's hand on the plan. (Kind of like the fact you may have to fly to California on business as information about a new site to see came to your attention). This is fun!
When we can find a common language I will understand better why some "High Guys" with excellent service records pulled the plug on the "big happy family" of the universe. I don't know that the man Robert Burgess can help with that one... but even on the human level I just know that those are called (by Father) to this event will have much to relate to one another on this adventure.
Even though "Angel's Lair" may not prove to be "Devil's Tower" and this close encounter may be only of the human kind to all outward appearances... we will have an interesting time to say the least. Bye Now..gotta vacate this cyberspace for some fresh air and sunshine.

Always Only Love. Steffani.

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05/07/00 at 11:20 am 

Steffani Murray:

Hi Black Feather...If you send me your e-mail I will forward you a cool post on Sitchin that showed up on UBRON. Or you could read it there as Cyntay's most recent in the list she's posted. Of course you may still be getting e-mail from UBRON but the fact your address isn't a functional one makes me think you probably don't. Either way...maybe you would be willing to share your thoughts if you do check it out. Maybe Cal will post it here but I'm not holding my breath waiting for it to show up.  Later. Love. Steffani.

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Caligastia: 05/07/00 at 1:34 pm 

At the time I made the 'prediction' you'd be coming out, I wasn't aware I was making a prediction. It seemed a known quantity to me. It was only when you mentioned I'd made a 'prediction' that I realized the comment was made out of time.

This gives pause to bring up the issue of time. Bob lives in linear time, Cal does not. You live in linear time, yours souls do not.

Linear is a fiction, a virtual reality. While it is false in its nature, it is extremely important and has lasting effects in its consequences.

The carving of Snoopy at the Lair well highlights the point. Snoopy arrived in the 1950's, yet these carvings were made well in advance of that 'reality'. The descriptor that best applies is 'temporal engineering'.

For the line to unfold as 'written' the parties involved must be at their own temporal intersections for key moments in time so that the balance of the linear dialogue unfolds. This does not imply force or control over anyone. What it does mean is that it is a known quantity (to Father) what your choices will be. That he and others know the product and end result of how you exercise your free will is not a reduction of freewill but an expansion of it for good purposes. This is applicable to you not me.

When I accepted the parameters of my mission, I saw the line in its entirity and also accepted them. When I did, I abandoned my freewill in service to the mission objectives, Father's objectives. It will be returned to me when the service is completed. From Bob's point of linear view, this would not be so because he is 'in' the line and lacks the high ground perspective. Cal know's better.

The Arab's have a saying that relates to this, 'It is Written'. Allah (Father) is the author. They accept this and that their own linear perceptions prevent them from an understanding of the greater purpose.
The Christian equivalent is 'God works in mysterious ways'. In truth,
Father is as consistant as sunrise - logic of purpose. Yet, as many cultures created godsets to explain what they didn't understand, we tend to allow to Father rationalizations to service our own lack of understand due to our linear moment.

I was concerned, in making the invitation to you that the universal aspects would attempt to interfere with you in a fashion to cause you some grief.
The playing field, however, was cleared by my action against them. The few that remain are disorganized and afraid - as they should be. It is not my nature to indulge violence. Yet, when needed I will apply sufficient force to get the job done. In this fashion, Father - thru me, has cleared the road before you.

Satan made a comment to me before we locked him up. He stated he had come to deliberately aggravate me into an action against him. That he realized it was his place in the line (universal) to be captured. He said that he was surprised at how little prodding it took to get me flamed.

While I don't give this individual's comments great weight, one must keep perspective on exactly whom you are talking to, I'd give the comment thought. When I attacked the universal elements who were attacking moments in the timeline, I gave Old One a heads up as to what I was about to do.
His comment was, "Well its about time". I was surprised in as much as I was uncertain that he could appreciate the size and scope of the horror I was about to inflict. I'm certain that the universal elements no longer call me planetary prince but rather planetary butcher. Yet, my actions were done in accordance with Father's will and in His name. These things bother me, regardless, they had to be done.

As of last week, I've extended the combativeness to temporal concerns affecting Bob. I contacted my attorney in Los Angeles and set him the task of righting an injustice that was committed against me. I'll not go into detail on this either now or later. It is sufficient to note that I have again taken up sword and that Father is with me.

Now to the average person, he would take the comment that Father is with me as a belief. Those of you who know me also understand I don't indulge beliefs but rather realities. At issue would be rather my perceptions of these things are correct. My history of being correct indicates a resounding yes.

Cal
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05/07/00 at 9:58 pm 

Steffani Murray:

Cal (05/07/00 at 1:34 pm) wrote:

>>
>>At the time I made the 'prediction' you'd be coming out, I wasn't aware I was making a prediction. It seemed a known quantity to me. It was only when you mentioned I'd made a 'prediction' that I realized the comment was made out of time.

>>SM*****Well...when I read it I responded that I didn't have any plan to do that soon but that I would try to visit the next time I know I'll be in Colorado which is for the next International UB Conference in 02. My inner thought was hummm...I wonder if he knows something I haven't been told yet
which was apparently the case.

>>This gives pause to bring up the issue of time. Bob lives in linear time, Cal does not. You live in linear time, yours souls do not.

>>SM***** Understood.

>>Linear is a fiction, a virtual reality. While it is false in its nature, it is extremely important and has lasting effects in its consequences.

>>SM***** Being out of time is more fun though...

>>The carving of Snoopy at the Lair well highlights the point. Snoopy arrived in the 1950's, yet these carvings were made well in advance of that 'reality'. The descriptor that best applies is 'temporal engineering'.

>>SM***** Drunvalo (regardless of your opinion of him) has pointed out some
'modern' items such as a helicopter on the inner wall of an Egyptian temple that are also interesting abberations to the temporal sequence.

>>For the line to unfold as 'written' the parties involved must be at their own temporal intersections for key moments in time so that the balance of the linear dialogue unfolds. This does not imply force or control over anyone. What it does mean is that it is a known quantity (to Father) what your choices will be. That he and others know the product and end result of how you exercise your free will is not a reduction of freewill but an expansion of it for good purposes. This is applicable to you not me.

>>SM***** Well it is to a good purpose if and only when I have volitionally chosen to align mine with His Plan and purposes. This is when the will becomes truly free to serve the Creator of all that is.

>>When I accepted the parameters of my mission, I saw the line in its entirity and also accepted them. When I did, I abandoned my freewill in service to the mission objectives, Father's objectives. It will be returned to me when the service is completed. From Bob's point of linear view, this would not be so because he is 'in' the line and lacks the high ground perspective. Cal know's better.

>>SM*****Is not serving Father's objectives forever a reasonable plan if one intends to create peace, happiness and harmony for oneself and others?

>>The Arab's have a saying that relates to this, 'It is Written'. Allah (Father) is the author. They accept this and that their own linear perceptions prevent them from an understanding of the greater purpose.

>>SM***** yes... that would generate a containment field wouldn't it.

>>The Christian equivalent is 'God works in mysterious ways'. In truth,
>>Father is as consistant as sunrise - logic of purpose. Yet, as many cultures created godsets to explain what they didn't understand, we tend to allow to Father rationalizations to service our own lack of understand due to our linear moment.

>>SM***** Well it sure is a mystery until that understanding comes...

>>I was concerned, in making the invitation to you that the universal aspects would attempt to interfere with you in a fashion to cause you some grief.

>>SM***** There would be little purpose in such an attempt...

>>The playing field, however, was cleared by my action against them. The few that remain are disorganized and afraid - as they should be. It is not my nature to indulge violence. Yet, when needed I will apply sufficient force to get the job done. In this fashion, Father - thru me, has cleared the road before you.

>>SM***** It is true that Father always does clear the road before me by one means or another... but it is always my hope that all will finally choose to avoid violence by use of the Real Force and that none will ever again have to be afraid anywhere.

>>Satan made a comment to me before we locked him up. He stated he had come to deliberately aggravate me into an action against him. That he realized it was his place in the line (universal) to be captured. He said that he was surprised at how little prodding it took to get me flamed.

>>SM***** How does this guy manage to get virtually everyone provoked?

>>While I don't give this individual's comments great weight, one must keep perspective on exactly whom you are talking to, I'd give the comment thought. When I attacked the universal elements who were attacking moments in the timeline, I gave Old One a heads up as to what I was about to do.
>>His comment was, "Well its about time". I was surprised in as much as I was uncertain that he could appreciate the size and scope of the horror I was about to inflict. I'm certain that the universal elements no longer call me planetary prince but rather planetary butcher. Yet, my actions were done in accordance with Father's will and in His name. These things bother me, regardless, they had to be done.

>>SM***** Ultimately it comes down to Self forgiveness...whenever someone tells me that they have done something that "bothers" them I become concerned that they have inflicted damage on their own being as well
as whatever harm they believe they may have caused to others.

>>As of last week, I've extended the combativeness to temporal concerns affecting Bob. I contacted my attorney in Los Angeles and set him the task of righting an injustice that was committed against me. I'll not go into detail on this either now or later. It is sufficient to note that I have again taken up sword and that Father is with me.

>>SM***** It has come to my attention that this world is based on a
system of trafficing in grievances...and rarely may injustices be really righted within its constructs. There is of course a better way ever available as you already know. Father blesses all our doings regardless
of the means attempted if the intention is pure.

>>Now to the average person, he would take the comment that Father is with me as a belief. Those of you who know me also understand I don't indulge beliefs but rather realities. At issue would be rather my perceptions of these things are correct. My history of being correct indicates a resounding yes.

>>SM*****This personality accepts Father's Presence and blessings as a mutually shared certainty.

>>***** Love, Light and Order. Steffani. (Meranda).

>>Cal 


Steffani Murray

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05/08/00 at 1:41 am 

Caligastia:
>>
>>>>SM***** Drunvalo (regardless of your opinion of him) has pointed out some
>>'modern' items such as a helicopter on the inner wall of an Egyptian temple that are also interesting abberations to the temporal sequence.
>>

Dru, being what he is, is not without knowledge or understanding. My issues with him are those of purpose and service.There are three sides to the equation. Universe, Rebellion and Father. The universe BELIEVES they serve Father but have done so many things against the planet and its populations the proposition is preposterous. Additionally, they engineered walkins during the 70's to purpose their objectives oblivious to the fact their actions were criminal by universal law. That Dru admits to his walk in status is an obvious issue.


>>
>>>>SM*****Is not serving Father's objectives forever a reasonable plan if one intends to create peace, happiness and harmony for oneself and others?

Clearly I chose my service. However, you allude to universal peace and harmony as a goal. I see little of this for the near future. Perhaps, ultimately. Me, I bump along day by day doing the best I can and hoping I don't trip over my own feet.


>>>>SM***** Well it sure is a mystery until that understanding comes...

To Christians it is a mystery. Muslims accept that it is written. There is a big difference between the two mentalities on the subject.


>>>>SM***** It is true that Father always does clear the road before me by one means or another... but it is always my hope that all will finally choose to avoid violence by use of the Real Force and that none will ever again have to be afraid anywhere.
>>

Again, you see the end result - the journey there is to be a difficult one - for this universe anyway.

>>>>Satan made a comment to me before we locked him up. He stated he had come to deliberately aggravate me into an action against him. That he realized it was his place in the line (universal) to be captured. He said that he was surprised at how little prodding it took to get me flamed.
>>
>>>>SM***** How does this guy manage to get virtually everyone provoked?


Actually, it seems universal personalities have a gift for pissing people off.


>>>>SM***** Ultimately it comes down to Self forgiveness...whenever someone tells me that they have done something that "bothers" them I become concerned that they have inflicted damage on their own being as well
>> as whatever harm they believe they may have caused to others.


I have nothing here to be forgiven for, least of all by myself. You are right, however, that service of this nature does leave scars. You file this under, 'if you can't stand the heat - get outta the kitchen'


>>
>>>>As of last week, I've extended the combativeness to temporal concerns affecting Bob. I contacted my attorney in Los Angeles and set him the task of righting an injustice that was committed against me. I'll not go into detail on this either now or later. It is sufficient to note that I have again taken up sword and that Father is with me.
>>
>>>>SM***** It has come to my attention that this world is based on a
>>system of trafficing in grievances...and rarely may injustices be really righted within its constructs.

This is a correct perception if one keeps in mind that courts are not in the business of justice. Justice can be had if it is one's goal and is pursued with reason WITH reasonable parties. Courts dispense money, not justice and grievances are not really addressed. The assumption is that the money balances out the scales and that justice is somehow achieved.


There is of course a better way ever available as you already know. Father blesses all our doings regardless of the means attempted if the intention is pure.

I can't say I agree with this. In a freewill society, Father tends to sit back. First hand intervention is EXTREMELY rare. Earth is one of those extremely rare exceptions. The truth is that there was no safe place within the universe to hide certain things. The only truly safe place was with Father himself. Thus, to impliment the engineering, Father HAD TO HAVE a first hand participatory role.

Now, from a spiritual point of view, I would be in more agreement.

Cal

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05/08/00 at 11:04 pm 

Steffani Murray:

Cal (05/08/00 at 1:41 am) wrote:

>>
>>>>
>>>>>>SM***** Drunvalo (regardless of your opinion of him) has pointed out some
>>>>'modern' items such as a helicopter on the inner wall of an Egyptian temple that are also interesting abberations to the temporal sequence.
>>>>
>>
>>Dru, being what he is, is not without knowledge or understanding. My issues with him are those of purpose and service.There are three sides to the equation. Universe, Rebellion and Father. The universe BELIEVES they serve Father but have done so many things against the planet and its populations the proposition is preposterous. Additionally, they engineered walkins during the 70's to purpose their objectives oblivious to the fact their actions were criminal by universal law. That Dru admits to his walk in status is an obvious issue.
>>
>>88888SM Did it require walk-in status to notice the chopper on the wall at Abydos? I thought the universe is loathe to violate their own rules...
did they believe they serve Father's purpose in doing so and had Creator's permission?
>>>>
>>>>>>SM*****Is not serving Father's objectives forever a reasonable plan if one intends to create peace, happiness and harmony for oneself and others?
>>
>>Clearly I chose my service. However, you allude to universal peace and harmony as a goal. I see little of this for the near future. Perhaps, ultimately. Me, I bump along day by day doing the best I can and hoping I don't trip over my own feet.

>>88888SM One foot in front of the other is a good plan in serving Father.
Also expedient is holding an out of time perspective of Light and Life as a long range project in eternal completed perfection as held in His Mind.
This gives a sense of meaning and purpose to the day to day trudge along.
>>
>>>>>>SM***** Well it sure is a mystery until that understanding comes...
>>
>>To Christians it is a mystery. Muslims accept that it is written. There is a big difference between the two mentalities on the subject.


>>88888SM The religious mentalities are ever a perplexion to me...
>>

>>>>>>SM***** It is true that Father always does clear the road before me by one means or another... but it is always my hope that all will finally choose to avoid violence by use of the Real Force and that none will ever again have to be afraid anywhere.
>>>>
>>
>>Again, you see the end result - the journey there is to be a difficult one - for this universe anyway.

88888SM Ah Yes...One mind and heart at a time... and there are so very many of them. The only way out of it is through it. I try to hold Spirit's
vision not that of the limited mortal perceptual identity. It is good to rest in certainty of Father's ability to accomplish His Will and Purposes.
>>

>>>>>>Satan made a comment to me before we locked him up. He stated he had come to deliberately aggravate me into an action against him. That he realized it was his place in the line (universal) to be captured. He said that he was surprised at how little prodding it took to get me flamed.
>>>>
>>>>>>SM***** How does this guy manage to get virtually everyone provoked?
>>
>>
>>Actually, it seems universal personalities have a gift for pissing people off.

>>88888SM Satan is not a personality I would have considered as universal at this point...seems a bit of a switcheroo from the UB story?
>>
>>>>>>SM***** Ultimately it comes down to Self forgiveness...whenever someone tells me that they have done something that "bothers" them I become concerned that they have inflicted damage on their own being as well
>>>> as whatever harm they believe they may have caused to others.
>>
>>
>>I have nothing here to be forgiven for, least of all by myself. You are right, however, that service of this nature does leave scars. You file this under, 'if you can't stand the heat - get outta the kitchen'
>>
>>
>>88888SM If the heat stays on so long that the kitchen catches fire and burns down one can no longer cook in that location. Burn scars are really ugly and make skin thick and inflexible too.


>>>>>>As of last week, I've extended the combativeness to temporal concerns affecting Bob. I contacted my attorney in Los Angeles and set him the task of righting an injustice that was committed against me. I'll not go into detail on this either now or later. It is sufficient to note that I have again taken up sword and that Father is with me.


>>>>88888SM Didn't Someone well known say something to the effect of he who takes up the sword just gets more of the same until it kills him?
Or was it the Beatles with the Sue Me Sue You Blues...



>>>>>>SM***** It has come to my attention that this world is based on a
>>>>system of trafficing in grievances...and rarely may injustices be really righted within its constructs.
>>
>>This is a correct perception if one keeps in mind that courts are not in the business of justice. Justice can be had if it is one's goal and is pursued with reason WITH reasonable parties. Courts dispense money, not justice and grievances are not really addressed. The assumption is that the money balances out the scales and that justice is somehow achieved.


>>88888SM How many "reasonable parties" can one expect to encounter in that kind of scenario?
>>
>> There is of course a better way ever available as you already know. Father blesses all our doings regardless of the means attempted if the intention is pure.

>>

>>I can't say I agree with this. In a freewill society, Father tends to sit back. First hand intervention is EXTREMELY rare. Earth is one of those extremely rare exceptions. The truth is that there was no safe place within the universe to hide certain things. The only truly safe place was with Father himself. Thus, to impliment the engineering, Father HAD TO HAVE a first hand participatory role.
>>
>>Now, from a spiritual point of view, I would be in more agreement.


>>88888SM The spiritual point of view is the better way envisioned. Wouldn't you consider the TA's a direct intervention by Their mere
Presence hidden in the mind of their subjects?

Only Love (take 3) Steffani.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

05/08/00 at 11:30 pm 

Caligastia:

>>>>88888SM Did it require walk-in status to notice the chopper on the wall at Abydos?

As I said, he is not without some ability.

I thought the universe is loathe to violate their own rules...

They are loathe to be caught violating their own rules. There comes a point where redefining 'is' doesn't cut it anymore.


>>did they believe they serve Father's purpose in doing so and had Creator's permission?
>>>>>>

Humans call this particular rationalization 'choosing between two evils'.
Of course the universe defines the greater evil as that which will not bend knee before their miscreance. This sort of move is one of the advantages of being a government.

>>Also expedient is holding an out of time perspective of Light and Life as a long range project in eternal completed perfection as held in His Mind.
>>This gives a sense of meaning and purpose to the day to day trudge along.
>>>>

Agreed. Once perspective is lost, so also is the purpose of it all.


>>>>88888SM Satan is not a personality I would have considered as universal at this point...seems a bit of a switcheroo from the UB story?


Satan spawns from the universe. A point of origin and a basis for the understanding of a mentality. However, consider this perspective. He just might be doing his job - poor though it may be.


>>>>
>>>>I have nothing here to be forgiven for, least of all by myself. You are right, however, that service of this nature does leave scars. You file this under, 'if you can't stand the heat - get outta the kitchen'
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>88888SM If the heat stays on so long that the kitchen catches fire and burns down one can no longer cook in that location. Burn scars are really ugly and make skin thick and inflexible too.
>>
>>
>>>>>>>>As of last week, I've extended the combativeness to temporal concerns affecting Bob. I contacted my attorney in Los Angeles and set him the task of righting an injustice that was committed against me. I'll not go into detail on this either now or later. It is sufficient to note that I have again taken up sword and that Father is with me.
>>
>>
>>>>>>88888SM Didn't Someone well known say something to the effect of he who takes up the sword just gets more of the same until it kills him?
>>Or was it the Beatles with the Sue Me Sue You Blues...
>>

He who lives by the sword dies by the sword - Jesus - not the Beatles:)
unless you've been getting your music from strange places.

>>
>>>>>>>>SM***** It has come to my attention that this world is based on a
>>>>>>system of trafficing in grievances...and rarely may injustices be really righted within its constructs.
>>>>
>>>>This is a correct perception if one keeps in mind that courts are not in the business of justice. Justice can be had if it is one's goal and is pursued with reason WITH reasonable parties. Courts dispense money, not justice and grievances are not really addressed. The assumption is that the money balances out the scales and that justice is somehow achieved.
>>
>>
>>>>88888SM How many "reasonable parties" can one expect to encounter in that kind of scenario?

Few I would say. However, Chuck Colson (one of Nixon's boys) used to keep a plague on his office wall that said, "When you have em by the balls, their hearts and minds will follow". I find that holding the high ground inspires many to reason.


>>>>
>>>> There is of course a better way ever available as you already know. Father blesses all our doings regardless of the means attempted if the intention is pure.
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>I can't say I agree with this. In a freewill society, Father tends to sit back. First hand intervention is EXTREMELY rare. Earth is one of those extremely rare exceptions. The truth is that there was no safe place within the universe to hide certain things. The only truly safe place was with Father himself. Thus, to impliment the engineering, Father HAD TO HAVE a first hand participatory role.
>>>>
>>>>Now, from a spiritual point of view, I would be in more agreement.
>>
>>
>>>>88888SM The spiritual point of view is the better way envisioned. Wouldn't you consider the TA's a direct intervention by Their mere
>>Presence hidden in the mind of their subjects?
>>

I have a different perspective on TA's than you do, and I've noted you have a tendency to allow them more than they really have and really do. My former TA is a leader amongst her people and had never been to six or before Father. In the day to day course of events, TA's are doing their job with subtle interventions in the way of suggestions many ignore. Interventions from Father tend to be much more noticable and frequently
can come directly from Him.

The UB's diatribe glorifies the TA without telling you how low a caste they are in the universal pecking order. Nor do they tell you that the Adams' and Eves are 16th level angels - just barely angelic.

Here again, perspective holds value.

Cal

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

05/09/00 at 10:35 pm 

Steffani Murray:

Cal (05/08/00 at 11:30 pm) wrote:

>>
>>>>>>88888SM Did it require walk-in status to notice the chopper on the wall at Abydos?
>>
>>As I said, he is not without some ability.
>>
>>I thought the universe is loathe to violate their own rules...
>>
>>They are loathe to be caught violating their own rules. There comes a point where redefining 'is' doesn't cut it anymore.
>>
+++++Redefining 'IS'? What a truly amazing idea...
>>
>>>>did they believe they serve Father's purpose in doing so and had Creator's permission?
>>>>>>>>
>>
>>Humans call this particular rationalization 'choosing between two evils'.
>>Of course the universe defines the greater evil as that which will not bend knee before their miscreance. This sort of move is one of the advantages of being a government.
>>
+++++Making a Divinely rational choice to see no evil... one may be nonetheless required to observe many irrational behaviors on the part of individuals as well as governments prior to overlooking them. As in "don't sweat the small stuff" and everything that seems to be happening in time/space evolutionary universes other than Love's manifestation is not only small but nonexistent from an eternal perspective. I think I have heard this expressed as "if it ain't Love it ain't Real".
>>

>>>>Also expedient is holding an out of time perspective of Light and Life as a long range project in eternal completed perfection as held in His Mind.
>>>>This gives a sense of meaning and purpose to the day to day trudge along.
>>>>>>
>>
>>Agreed. Once perspective is lost, so also is the purpose of it all.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>>>>88888SM Satan is not a personality I would have considered as universal at this point...seems a bit of a switcheroo from the UB story?
>>
>>
>>Satan spawns from the universe. A point of origin and a basis for the understanding of a mentality. However, consider this perspective. He just might be doing his job - poor though it may be.
>>
+++++Everyone "spawns" from the universe...where else is there to spawn from?
All of the Beings who are now on the UB's shitlist of rebellious personalities functioned within its' constructs until a moment ago from any eternal Being's perspective. To the Supreme Being these matters are probably viewed with all the significance of boys having a snowball fight in the schoolyard. I do remain unclear as to the function of engineering a "separation". No doubt because I'm trying to reconstuct what occurred with the finite mortal peabrain and key pieces of the equation are still absent. Satan as Lucifer's #1 theoretically might just be doing his job.
As our Creator Son demonstrated so well during His mortal incarnation as Jesus one can be virtually perfectly behaved and still manage to be perceived as blasphemous, crazy, and keeping company with sinners and
"the Prince of the Devils" not only by strangers but sometimes by family
members. He pissed off enough "high ranking" people who fancied themselves sufficiently important and insulted by His mere existence to warrant murder by torture. By living as a human I am having an excellent opportunity to understand insanity from the inside out even as He did.
I appreciate the fact He did this first so that I may understand it in the Light of shared experience. Human perceptions are unstable, unreasonable
and capricious...hardly a sufficient basis for making good decisions in-
volving 'free will'. I cannot help thinking that evolutionary
animal origin is a significant handicap to making spiritual progress.

>>
>>>>>>I have nothing here to be forgiven for, least of all by myself. You are right, however, that service of this nature does leave scars. You file this under, 'if you can't stand the heat - get outta the kitchen'
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>88888SM If the heat stays on so long that the kitchen catches fire and burns down one can no longer cook in that location. Burn scars are really ugly and make skin thick and inflexible too.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>As of last week, I've extended the combativeness to temporal concerns affecting Bob. I contacted my attorney in Los Angeles and set him the task of righting an injustice that was committed against me. I'll not go into detail on this either now or later. It is sufficient to note that I have again taken up sword and that Father is with me.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>>88888SM Didn't Someone well known say something to the effect of he who takes up the sword just gets more of the same until it kills him?
>>>>Or was it the Beatles with the Sue Me Sue You Blues...
>>>>
>>
>>He who lives by the sword dies by the sword - Jesus - not the Beatles:)
>>unless you've been getting your music from strange places.

+++++ I knew that...I just wanted to see if you did.
I do get my music from very strange places...
I hear Jesus, the Beatles, and the Heavenly Angels singing
" All You Need is Love " in 3 point harmony!
>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>SM***** It has come to my attention that this world is based on a
>>>>>>>>system of trafficing in grievances...and rarely may injustices be really righted within its constructs.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>This is a correct perception if one keeps in mind that courts are not in the business of justice. Justice can be had if it is one's goal and is pursued with reason WITH reasonable parties. Courts dispense money, not justice and grievances are not really addressed. The assumption is that the money balances out the scales and that justice is somehow achieved.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>88888SM How many "reasonable parties" can one expect to encounter in that kind of scenario?
>>
>>Few I would say. However, Chuck Colson (one of Nixon's boys) used to keep a plague on his office wall that said, "When you have em by the balls, their hearts and minds will follow". I find that holding the high ground inspires many to reason.


>>+++++Yes...and I have a copy of a saying on the plaque on the wall of Dr. Bob's office ( one of A A's founding fathers) on the inspiring topic of humility. I try to read at least once daily and take it to heart but there are days I truly wonder how long it will take me to "be there".
Perhaps a secure grasp on the family jewels is the only way that sort of crew could be escorted to the higher ground of reason until the minds and hearts find their way up there.

>>>>>> There is of course a better way ever available as you already know. Father blesses all our doings regardless of the means attempted if the intention is pure.
>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>I can't say I agree with this. In a freewill society, Father tends to sit back. First hand intervention is EXTREMELY rare. Earth is one of those extremely rare exceptions. The truth is that there was no safe place within the universe to hide certain things. The only truly safe place was with Father himself. Thus, to impliment the engineering, Father HAD TO HAVE a first hand participatory role.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Now, from a spiritual point of view, I would be in more agreement.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>88888SM The spiritual point of view is the better way envisioned. Wouldn't you consider the TA's a direct intervention by Their mere
>>>>Presence hidden in the mind of their subjects?
>>>>
>>
>>I have a different perspective on TA's than you do, and I've noted you have a tendency to allow them more than they really have and really do. My former TA is a leader amongst her people and had never been to six or before Father. In the day to day course of events, TA's are doing their job with subtle interventions in the way of suggestions many ignore. Interventions from Father tend to be much more noticable and frequently
>>can come directly from Him.
>>
>>The UB's diatribe glorifies the TA without telling you how low a caste they are in the universal pecking order. Nor do they tell you that the Adams' and Eves are 16th level angels - just barely angelic.
>>
>>Here again, perspective holds value.
>>

+++++ Yep...no way around this one. I do look at the TA in a very different
way. As the actual individuated prepersonal Spirit that is Father's Gift of His own Being...and fusion with It as the means of ascendancy for a particular order of created sons...as in TA's is Us if we really exist as potentially immortal personalities rather than quasi-sentient animals.

+++++Adams and Eves are material Sons...reproducing by sexual rather than
projective means. Just barely angelic seems an appropriate description.

++++++Have you ever considered the idea that all life forms are simply whatever
they are in a non-hierarchical manner...not 'higher or lower' or 'better or worse' merely differing and then letting go of preferences? Making a practice of appreciating Creator's authorship of His creatures...like telling an artist or poet how meaningful their work is to you? Not that Father would need anything back from us but the effort to seek His Presence seems the most worthy offering a Son can give to Him . Jesus demonstrated communion with the Paradise Father as a pattern. Considering the vast gulf between His perfection and human imperfection He must have given us a practical means to fellowship with Him. Father's own indwelling Spirit and the Creator Son's Spirit of Truth are the means provided to make the impossible possible. So you are correct that I esteem my TA as that with which I AM in primary relationship.
+++++ Way too much verbiage from me! I am so glad we can disagree without being monstrously disagreeable.

Only Love.(again) Steffani.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

05/09/00 at 11:40 pm 

Caligastia:

>>+++++Making a Divinely rational choice to see no evil... one may be nonetheless required to observe many irrational behaviors on the part of individuals as well as governments prior to overlooking them.


So then, you'd have people choose to be blind, deaf, dumb and stupid in the service of a 'divinely rational choice'? This seems the opposite extreme of the universe fascist and totalitarian meglomania.


As in "don't sweat the small stuff" and everything that seems to be happening in time/space evolutionary universes other than Love's manifestation is not only small but nonexistent from an eternal perspective. I think I have heard this expressed as "if it ain't Love it ain't Real".
>>>>
>>

This last comment makes me think of a phrase, "You're gonna love each other EVEN IF IT KILLS YOU". I agree with not sweating the little things.


>>>>>>Also expedient is holding an out of time perspective of Light and Life as a long range project in eternal completed perfection as held in His Mind.

You've hit upon a point here. What makes you think the universe HAS an out of time perspective? They do where mortality is concerned because they can look down into the line. Yet, from their own level, they're as blind as we are doing linear.


>>>>>>>>88888SM Satan is not a personality I would have considered as universal at this point...seems a bit of a switcheroo from the UB story?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Satan spawns from the universe. A point of origin and a basis for the understanding of a mentality. However, consider this perspective. He just might be doing his job - poor though it may be.
>>>>
>>+++++Everyone "spawns" from the universe...where else is there to spawn from?

Incorrect. Those born of earth, spawned from earth. The mortal soul here had no existence before earth - thus, they did not spawn FROM the universe.


>>All of the Beings who are now on the UB's shitlist of rebellious personalities functioned within its' constructs until a moment ago from any eternal Being's perspective. To the Supreme Being these matters are probably viewed with all the significance of boys having a snowball fight in the schoolyard.

Not so. This is not a schoolyard pissing contest. The fate of six universes hangs in the balance and is centered on what happens here on Earth.


I do remain unclear as to the function of engineering a "separation". No doubt because I'm trying to reconstuct what occurred with the finite mortal peabrain and key pieces of the equation are still absent. Satan as Lucifer's #1 theoretically might just be doing his job.
>>As our Creator Son demonstrated so well during His mortal incarnation as Jesus one can be virtually perfectly behaved and still manage to be perceived as blasphemous, crazy, and keeping company with sinners and
>>"the Prince of the Devils" not only by strangers but sometimes by family
>>members. He pissed off enough "high ranking" people who fancied themselves sufficiently important and insulted by His mere existence to warrant murder by torture. By living as a human I am having an excellent opportunity to understand insanity from the inside out even as He did.
>>I appreciate the fact He did this first so that I may understand it in the Light of shared experience. Human perceptions are unstable, unreasonable
>>and capricious.

I disagree. Human motivations are as predictable as sunrise IF you understand the causal agents. Ironically, the same psyche exists in the universe.


..hardly a sufficient basis for making good decisions in-
>>volving 'free will'. I cannot help thinking that evolutionary
>>animal origin is a significant handicap to making spiritual progress.
>>

Again, I disagree. The imposition of intellect over animal instincts is a key factor and first step on the road to ascendancy.


>>>>
>>>>>>>>I have nothing here to be forgiven for, least of all by myself. You are right, however, that service of this nature does leave scars. You file this under, 'if you can't stand the heat - get outta the kitchen'
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>88888SM If the heat stays on so long that the kitchen catches fire and burns down one can no longer cook in that location. Burn scars are really ugly and make skin thick and inflexible too.
>>>>>>

Then you live with it. such is the acceptance of 'thy will be done'

>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>As of last week, I've extended the combativeness to temporal concerns affecting Bob. I contacted my attorney in Los Angeles and set him the task of righting an injustice that was committed against me. I'll not go into detail on this either now or later. It is sufficient to note that I have again taken up sword and that Father is with me.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>88888SM Didn't Someone well known say something to the effect of he who takes up the sword just gets more of the same until it kills him?
>>>>>>Or was it the Beatles with the Sue Me Sue You Blues...
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>He who lives by the sword dies by the sword - Jesus - not the Beatles:)
>>>>unless you've been getting your music from strange places.
>>
>>+++++ I knew that...I just wanted to see if you did.
>>I do get my music from very strange places...
>>I hear Jesus, the Beatles, and the Heavenly Angels singing
>>" All You Need is Love " in 3 point harmony!
>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>SM***** It has come to my attention that this world is based on a
>>>>>>>>>>system of trafficing in grievances...and rarely may injustices be really righted within its constructs.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>This is a correct perception if one keeps in mind that courts are not in the business of justice. Justice can be had if it is one's goal and is pursued with reason WITH reasonable parties. Courts dispense money, not justice and grievances are not really addressed. The assumption is that the money balances out the scales and that justice is somehow achieved.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>88888SM How many "reasonable parties" can one expect to encounter in that kind of scenario?
>>>>
>>>>Few I would say. However, Chuck Colson (one of Nixon's boys) used to keep a plague on his office wall that said, "When you have em by the balls, their hearts and minds will follow". I find that holding the high ground inspires many to reason.
>>
>>
>>>>+++++Yes...and I have a copy of a saying on the plaque on the wall of Dr. Bob's office ( one of A A's founding fathers) on the inspiring topic of humility. I try to read at least once daily and take it to heart but there are days I truly wonder how long it will take me to "be there".
>>Perhaps a secure grasp on the family jewels is the only way that sort of crew could be escorted to the higher ground of reason until the minds and hearts find their way up there.
>>

In this instance, I find motivations of less importance than the doing.

On the subject of plaques, a friend - knowing I am given to extreme focus when in a conflict - gave me a plaque that hung over my desk and which I did read daily.

Those who fight monsters should see to it that in the process they themselves do not become a monster and when you look into the abyss, it also looks into you.

I took it as reminder and a warning not to become that which you stand against.

>>>>>>>> There is of course a better way ever available as you already know. Father blesses all our doings regardless of the means attempted if the intention is pure.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>I can't say I agree with this. In a freewill society, Father tends to sit back. First hand intervention is EXTREMELY rare. Earth is one of those extremely rare exceptions. The truth is that there was no safe place within the universe to hide certain things. The only truly safe place was with Father himself. Thus, to impliment the engineering, Father HAD TO HAVE a first hand participatory role.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Now, from a spiritual point of view, I would be in more agreement.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>88888SM The spiritual point of view is the better way envisioned. Wouldn't you consider the TA's a direct intervention by Their mere
>>>>>>Presence hidden in the mind of their subjects?
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>I have a different perspective on TA's than you do, and I've noted you have a tendency to allow them more than they really have and really do. My former TA is a leader amongst her people and had never been to six or before Father. In the day to day course of events, TA's are doing their job with subtle interventions in the way of suggestions many ignore. Interventions from Father tend to be much more noticable and frequently
>>>>can come directly from Him.
>>>>
>>>>The UB's diatribe glorifies the TA without telling you how low a caste they are in the universal pecking order. Nor do they tell you that the Adams' and Eves are 16th level angels - just barely angelic.
>>>>
>>>>Here again, perspective holds value.
>>>>
>>
>>+++++ Yep...no way around this one. I do look at the TA in a very different
>>way. As the actual individuated prepersonal Spirit that is Father's Gift of His own Being...and fusion with It as the means of ascendancy for a particular order of created sons...as in TA's is Us if we really exist as potentially immortal personalities rather than quasi-sentient animals.
>>

You achieved immortality the moment you were given a soul. I do hope you don't talk like this in person:)


>>+++++Adams and Eves are material Sons...reproducing by sexual rather than
>>projective means. Just barely angelic seems an appropriate description.
>>
>>++++++Have you ever considered the idea that all life forms are simply whatever
>>they are in a non-hierarchical manner...not 'higher or lower' or 'better or worse' merely differing and then letting go of preferences?

THAT!!!!! was Lucifer's original point!!!

It is the universal government that separates us, categorizes us and attempts to quantify us.

Making a practice of appreciating Creator's authorship of His creatures...like telling an artist or poet how meaningful their work is to you?

I'd rather allow each their own perceptions instead of imposing a state sponsered Melchezidek doctrine.


Not that Father would need anything back from us but the effort to seek His Presence seems the most worthy offering a Son can give to Him . Jesus demonstrated communion with the Paradise Father as a pattern. Considering the vast gulf between His perfection and human imperfection He must have given us a practical means to fellowship with Him.

Methinks you have a tendency to overthink a subject. If you wish to know Father or Son's motivations - ASK THEM. Otherwise, you have theological and philsophical speculations you attribute to them. High inappropriate in my opinion.


Father's own indwelling Spirit

Father IS the spirit. He can't have an indwelling spirit.

and the Creator Son's Spirit of Truth are the means provided to make the impossible possible. So you are correct that I esteem my TA as that with which I AM in primary relationship.

Perhaps it a position of familiarty with the Son which enables me to a different perspective than you possess. You seem in need of an object of worship AND the Son is indeed entitled to it. I see him as a person with a job. Sometimes a good job, and sometimes a poor one. There is a carving at the Lair of a boy who carries a lizard on his back. A child who carries the weight of a universe much as I carry the responsibility for Earth.

While both of our views are, in actuality, correct - I think mine holds the person of the Son in greater perspective.

I'll ask you, when you come here - if I suitably impress you that 1. the UB is wrong where I am concerned and 2. that I am truly in Father's service, are you going to deify me? I have been called the god of the Earth in the old testament and summary deification was granted many times over the course of history. Or will you see me as a person with a job and relate to me as a man - one of many men. A similar vision of The Son would be appropriate. On one hand you site Lucifer's doctrine of equality and then turn around and ignore it as it applies to the higest of us. Thus, you perpetuate the very separations that you say you don't care for.


If it serves you purpose to believe there is a direct and divine connection between Father and your TA - by all means - stick with it. I tell you though, it is not as you present it. Few Ta's have ever had a direct link with Father. Your own soul is a much better 'link' than attempting to use a TA as an intermediary. Furthermore, were you to have audience with Father, your TA would be excluded from it.

This fact speaks for itself.

Cal

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

05/10/00 at 4:16 pm 

Steffani Murray:

Cal (05/09/00 at 11:40 pm) wrote:

>>
>>>>+++++Making a Divinely rational choice to see no evil... one may be nonetheless required to observe many irrational behaviors on the part of individuals as well as governments prior to overlooking them.
>>
>>
>>So then, you'd have people choose to be blind, deaf, dumb and stupid in the service of a 'divinely rational choice'? This seems the opposite extreme of the universe fascist and totalitarian meglomania.

>>

>>####### Nope. I would not have "people" be other than who they
choose to be. This decision is only for Me...not me.
In the day to day life on the planet I shovel my full quota of
uh..."fertilizer" and many days even more.
It is by holding onto the "above the battleground" perspective
while going through it that I can avoid getting caught up in it.


>>As in "don't sweat the small stuff" and everything that seems to be happening in time/space evolutionary universes other than Love's manifestation is not only small but nonexistent from an eternal perspective. I think I have heard this expressed as "if it ain't Love it ain't Real".
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>
>>This last comment makes me think of a phrase, "You're gonna love each other EVEN IF IT KILLS YOU". I agree with not sweating the little things.

>>
####### Love is the only Reality I acknowledge...at least from
Higher Ground. In daily living and interactions with "others"
it surely will "kill" the little false self that arrogantly
confuses itself with Me. Anyone who mistakes meekness for
weakness to the point of attempting to "run a game" is usually
confounded by the result. This is usually an entertaining lesson
for all involved and quite harmless. I do meet a few who believe
that because "winning through intimidation" works on the streets
it will be effective in getting what they think they want in a
different setting. Often finding there is a better alternative
available than they dreamed of or imagined and that another actually does have their interests at heart without being "forced" to initiates an attitudinal reversal that may actually have lasting consequences.

>>
>>>>>>>>Also expedient is holding an out of time perspective of Light and Life as a long range project in eternal completed perfection as held in His Mind.
>>
>>You've hit upon a point here. What makes you think the universe HAS an out of time perspective? They do where mortality is concerned because they can look down into the line. Yet, from their own level, they're as blind as we are doing linear.
>>
>>#######The word universe to me means mostly an astronomical "domain"
within the cosmos not the viewpoint of the beings living in it.
If you interpret my usage to mean the "political dominion"
of a hierarchical structure this at times seems to be confusing
our attempts at communication. I will in the future to try
to clarify the meaning I intend for the term if not crystal
crystal clear by context.
>>
>>
>>>>>>>>>>88888SM Satan is not a personality I would have considered as universal at this point...seems a bit of a switcheroo from the UB story?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Satan spawns from the universe. A point of origin and a basis for the understanding of a mentality. However, consider this perspective. He just might be doing his job - poor though it may be.
>>>>>>
>>>>+++++Everyone "spawns" from the universe...where else is there to spawn from?
>>
>>Incorrect. Those born of earth, spawned from earth. The mortal soul here had no existence before earth - thus, they did not spawn FROM the universe.
>>
>>
####### I can see here a good example of my usage being confusing.
I did mean the "political" context in speaking of Satan as
a personality...then I jumped right into using it to mean
the entire cosmos in which this and all planets are located
in the very next sentence. Apology for obfuscating my own
point respectfully extended. Do you then refer to those mortal
souls having Urth as their evolutionary home world as not
being "spawned from the universe" because the 'declaration
of succession' removed this sphere from the dominion of the
existing universe government?


>>>>All of the Beings who are now on the UB's shitlist of rebellious personalities functioned within its' constructs until a moment ago from any eternal Being's perspective. To the Supreme Being these matters are probably viewed with all the significance of boys having a snowball fight in the schoolyard.
>>
>>Not so. This is not a schoolyard pissing contest. The fate of six universes hangs in the balance and is centered on what happens here on Earth.
>>
####### My trust in Michael of Nebadon to implement Father's Will in all
that is given to Him to accomplish is total. As His final
bestowal world and personal 'ward' this planet's role in
fulfilling it's designated function perfectly is a given.
May Father forgive me for saying this but whether you or Mac
consider yourself the 'rightful' interim ruler of this colorful
small decimal world is an interesting situation.It has
the potential for nondestructive resolution which even I in my
present condition can envision. This one is a very temporal
solvable problem. In fact there are statements that you have
made to me that indicate this is an issue that has already
been worked out between you guys. I do hope that this is so.

>>
>> I do remain unclear as to the function of engineering a "separation". No doubt because I'm trying to reconstuct what occurred with the finite mortal peabrain and key pieces of the equation are still absent. Satan as Lucifer's #1 theoretically might just be doing his job.
>>>>As our Creator Son demonstrated so well during His mortal incarnation as Jesus one can be virtually perfectly behaved and still manage to be perceived as blasphemous, crazy, and keeping company with sinners and
>>>>"the Prince of the Devils" not only by strangers but sometimes by family
>>>>members. He pissed off enough "high ranking" people who fancied themselves sufficiently important and insulted by His mere existence to warrant murder by torture. By living as a human I am having an excellent opportunity to understand insanity from the inside out even as He did.
>>>>I appreciate the fact He did this first so that I may understand it in the Light of shared experience. Human perceptions are unstable, unreasonable
>>>>and capricious.
>>
>>I disagree. Human motivations are as predictable as sunrise IF you understand the causal agents. Ironically, the same psyche exists in the universe.
>>
>>####### I do agree complete about motivations. When I speak of
'perceptions' I refer more to the lens through which
circumstances around situations or persons form into opinions
that can be altered by 'spin'... and used by the unscrupulous
to manipulate and control anyone who abnegates the responsi-
bility to think for himself. Humans to my observation are
disinclined to utilize the option of waiting until they have
enough information to form a reasonable opinion prior to making
one.

>>..hardly a sufficient basis for making good decisions in-
>>>>volving 'free will'. I cannot help thinking that evolutionary
>>>>animal origin is a significant handicap to making spiritual progress.
>>>>
>>
>>Again, I disagree. The imposition of intellect over animal instincts is a key factor and first step on the road to ascendancy.
>>
>>####### Sure...but some one who starts out as say a seraphim doesn't
have to deal with climbing out of the primordial ooze to even
begin setting out on the road to ascendancy. Yes...I know...
By my own ideas I should be pleased to be in whatever state
I seem to find myself... and someday I will be so
grateful to have been priviledged to have had the opportunity
to be sentient goo...in fact I may have earnestly sought out
the chance to do this
but I really can't remember right now.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>I have nothing here to be forgiven for, least of all by myself. You are right, however, that service of this nature does leave scars. You file this under, 'if you can't stand the heat - get outta the kitchen'
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>88888SM If the heat stays on so long that the kitchen catches fire and burns down one can no longer cook in that location. Burn scars are really ugly and make skin thick and inflexible too.
>>>>>>>>
>>
>>Then you live with it. such is the acceptance of 'thy will be done'

>>####### Yes!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>As of last week, I've extended the combativeness to temporal concerns affecting Bob. I contacted my attorney in Los Angeles and set him the task of righting an injustice that was committed against me. I'll not go into detail on this either now or later. It is sufficient to note that I have again taken up sword and that Father is with me.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>88888SM Didn't Someone well known say something to the effect of he who takes up the sword just gets more of the same until it kills him?
>>>>>>>>Or was it the Beatles with the Sue Me Sue You Blues...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>He who lives by the sword dies by the sword - Jesus - not the Beatles:)
>>>>>>unless you've been getting your music from strange places.
>>>>
>>>>+++++ I knew that...I just wanted to see if you did.
>>>>I do get my music from very strange places...
>>>>I hear Jesus, the Beatles, and the Heavenly Angels singing
>>>>" All You Need is Love " in 3 point harmony!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>SM***** It has come to my attention that this world is based on a
>>>>>>>>>>>>system of trafficing in grievances...and rarely may injustices be really righted within its constructs.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>This is a correct perception if one keeps in mind that courts are not in the business of justice. Justice can be had if it is one's goal and is pursued with reason WITH reasonable parties. Courts dispense money, not justice and grievances are not really addressed. The assumption is that the money balances out the scales and that justice is somehow achieved.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>88888SM How many "reasonable parties" can one expect to encounter in that kind of scenario?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Few I would say. However, Chuck Colson (one of Nixon's boys) used to keep a plague on his office wall that said, "When you have em by the balls, their hearts and minds will follow". I find that holding the high ground inspires many to reason.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>+++++Yes...and I have a copy of a saying on the plaque on the wall of Dr. Bob's office ( one of A A's founding fathers) on the inspiring topic of humility. I try to read at least once daily and take it to heart but there are days I truly wonder how long it will take me to "be there".
>>>>Perhaps a secure grasp on the family jewels is the only way that sort of crew could be escorted to the higher ground of reason until the minds and hearts find their way up there.
>>>>
>>
>>In this instance, I find motivations of less importance than the doing.
>>
>>On the subject of plaques, a friend - knowing I am given to extreme focus when in a conflict - gave me a plaque that hung over my desk and which I did read daily.
>>
>>Those who fight monsters should see to it that in the process they themselves do not become a monster and when you look into the abyss, it also looks into you.
>>
>>I took it as reminder and a warning not to become that which you stand against.
>>
>>####### Yes, Dear One...that is what I was trying to say to you...
The paradox of waging jihad to eventuate peace is also
a factor.
To return to the topic of perception for a moment in light
of the above...
I have a favorite cartoon showing a man sitting on the hood
of his car looking out over a body of water and engaging an
enormous 'sea serpent' in conversation...he has apparently
just enquired of it whether it is the Loch Ness monster...
It responds to his query with " It all depends on your point
of view...to me YOU are a monster".

>>
>>>>>>>>>> There is of course a better way ever available as you already know. Father blesses all our doings regardless of the means attempted if the intention is pure.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>I can't say I agree with this. In a freewill society, Father tends to sit back. First hand intervention is EXTREMELY rare. Earth is one of those extremely rare exceptions. The truth is that there was no safe place within the universe to hide certain things. The only truly safe place was with Father himself. Thus, to impliment the engineering, Father HAD TO HAVE a first hand participatory role.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Now, from a spiritual point of view, I would be in more agreement.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>88888SM The spiritual point of view is the better way envisioned. Wouldn't you consider the TA's a direct intervention by Their mere
>>>>>>>>Presence hidden in the mind of their subjects?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I have a different perspective on TA's than you do, and I've noted you have a tendency to allow them more than they really have and really do. My former TA is a leader amongst her people and had never been to six or before Father. In the day to day course of events, TA's are doing their job with subtle interventions in the way of suggestions many ignore. Interventions from Father tend to be much more noticable and frequently
>>>>>>can come directly from Him.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>The UB's diatribe glorifies the TA without telling you how low a caste they are in the universal pecking order. Nor do they tell you that the Adams' and Eves are 16th level angels - just barely angelic.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Here again, perspective holds value.
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>+++++ Yep...no way around this one. I do look at the TA in a very different
>>>>way. As the actual individuated prepersonal Spirit that is Father's Gift of His own Being...and fusion with It as the means of ascendancy for a particular order of created sons...as in TA's is Us if we really exist as potentially immortal personalities rather than quasi-sentient animals.
>>>>
>>
>>You achieved immortality the moment you were given a soul. I do hope you don't talk like this in person:)
>>
>>####### Oh, Just hit me with a good joke or two that lets me laugh
at my own pretentiousness...you'll find I lighten up quickly.

>>>>+++++Adams and Eves are material Sons...reproducing by sexual rather than
>>>>projective means. Just barely angelic seems an appropriate description.
>>>>
>>>>++++++Have you ever considered the idea that all life forms are simply whatever
>>>>they are in a non-hierarchical manner...not 'higher or lower' or 'better or worse' merely differing and then letting go of preferences?
>>
>>THAT!!!!! was Lucifer's original point!!!

>>####### Bless his heart...I hope everyone finally comes around
to understanding this!

>>It is the universal government that separates us, categorizes us and attempts to quantify us.

>>####### To heal that separation is the reason I AM existent.

>> Making a practice of appreciating Creator's authorship of His creatures...like telling an artist or poet how meaningful their work is to you?
>>
>>I'd rather allow each their own perceptions instead of imposing a state sponsered Melchezidek doctrine.

>>####### I do not concur that the sponsoring of doctrines has ever
disallowed anyone from having their own perceptions.
>>
>>Not that Father would need anything back from us but the effort to seek His Presence seems the most worthy offering a Son can give to Him . Jesus demonstrated communion with the Paradise Father as a pattern. Considering the vast gulf between His perfection and human imperfection He must have given us a practical means to fellowship with Him.
>>
>>Methinks you have a tendency to overthink a subject. If you wish to know Father or Son's motivations - ASK THEM. Otherwise, you have theological and philsophical speculations you attribute to them. High inappropriate in my opinion.
>>
>>####### OK...but I think I prefer to overthink than underthink!
I do ask...the responses have to sift through the dense
filter of mortality...you have used the term "incarnational
darkness" to describe your own situation and await
complete "repersonalization" do you not?

>> Father's own indwelling Spirit
>>
>>Father IS the spirit. He can't have an indwelling spirit.

>>####### The UB and the Bible both state "in Him we (literally) live
move and have our being". Encircuited is a term that makes
sense to me as I comprehend Spirit. My Spirit encompassed
and pervaded by Michael's and He by Father. A physical analogy
of this could be made as each cell in a material body
identifies itself genetically as part of the whole...none
by itself could even be "alive" yet each contributes to
the integrity that comprises the complete biological function-
ing of the particular life form. I hope this makes sense
through the awkwardness of the words. A clumsy comparison but
the best way that I can think of at present to convey the
concept.

>> and the Creator Son's Spirit of Truth are the means provided to make the impossible possible. So you are correct that I esteem my TA as that with which I AM in primary relationship.
>>
>>Perhaps it a position of familiarty with the Son which enables me to a different perspective than you possess. You seem in need of an object of worship AND the Son is indeed entitled to it. I see him as a person with a job. Sometimes a good job, and sometimes a poor one. There is a carving at the Lair of a boy who carries a lizard on his back. A child who carries the weight of a universe much as I carry the responsibility for Earth.
>>
>>While both of our views are, in actuality, correct - I think mine holds the person of the Son in greater perspective.

>>####### You do carry a lot of responsibility for Urantia as He does for
the universe of Nebadon. I have respect and regard for all who
seek to fulfill their responsibilities to Father well at every
level of existence. It is the Creator of All that I 'worship'
yet honor His Spirit Presence (direct or indirect) in all Life.
Michael is 'technically' my God in essence as time/space
'transformative' Creator of the conciousness that thinks of
itself as 'me' but in our personal relationship He has never in-
dicated He wishes anything from me other than a willingness to
be present with Him. If I 'worship' Him it is in the sense that
a young girl might admire, respect and 'hero-worship' a
magnificent older brother who is way more grown up than she
is...a beloved Friend and Teacher Who is really easy to "talk
to" yet always understands perfectly what is going on without
words even needing to be used. Always infinitely loving and
accepting including during corrective redirection which is
really difficult to explain rationally... His personality isn't
the least bit pretentious.

>>I'll ask you, when you come here - if I suitably impress you that 1. the UB is wrong where I am concerned and 2. that I am truly in Father's service, are you going to deify me? I have been called the god of the Earth in the old testament and summary deification was granted many times over the course of history. Or will you see me as a person with a job and relate to me as a man - one of many men. A similar vision of The Son would be appropriate. On one hand you site Lucifer's doctrine of equality and then turn around and ignore it as it applies to the higest of us. Thus, you perpetuate the very separations that you say you don't care for.

>>####### One night while I was reading the Code of Love I was mulling
over in my mind the ah...job descriptions of Hanavard and
Lanaforge when I 'felt' the presence of something of 'something'
over the house as big as the aircraft carriers up at the naval
base. Not recognizing the energy I asked who had dropped in for
a visit and was told Lanaforge...so I said uh,I didn't realize
you made housecalls on mortals. He just said he would but no one
had called up and invited him over. You could safely say I was
duly impressed and overwhelmed...especially after he showed me
in panoramic epical detail the scope of his job description.
Big Guy...big job but the point is sense of humor to kid around
has been a significant factor in the realization that being
significantly awed by the amount of responsibility someone has
hardly equals 'deification'. I guess what I'm trying to say is
none of my encounters with even the 'Highest' beings I've met
has been what could be thought of as 'intimidating'. There is
a deep sense of loving communion and understanding that these
words are inadequate to describe.
Anyway I'm not easily impressed nor do I need to be. The UB does
not have to be 'wrong' to be the opinions of the writers. They
admit there is a lot they don't know know even as I do.
If Michael hadn't suggested you could probably use u someone like me as a friend right now we wouldn't
be having this conversation.


>>
>>If it serves you purpose to believe there is a direct and divine connection between Father and your TA - by all means - stick with it. I tell you though, it is not as you present it. Few Ta's have ever had a direct link with Father. Your own soul is a much better 'link' than attempting to use a TA as an intermediary. Furthermore, were you to have audience with Father, your TA would be excluded from it.
>>
>>This fact speaks for itself.
>>####### Perhaps my thoughts as I try to word them are not able to
express what is my experience. I have another on line friend
I have met on UBRON that uses the word soul to mean more than
the TA's transcript. Without my TA I do not think I have a Spirit
identity for the personality to express through at this point
...how could a videotape or an ego meet
with Father? I have gradually assimilated UB terminology
through the years but somehow words like mind, soul and spirit
have other understandings than those I use them to convey.

As Always Only Love. Steffani.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

05/10/00 at 5:40 pm 

Caligastia:

>>
>>>>####### Nope. I would not have "people" be other than who they
>> choose to be. This decision is only for Me...not me.
>> In the day to day life on the planet I shovel my full quota of
>> uh..."fertilizer" and many days even more.
>> It is by holding onto the "above the battleground" perspective
>> while going through it that I can avoid getting caught up in it.
>>
>>

Agreed

>>>>As in "don't sweat the small stuff" and everything that seems to be happening in time/space evolutionary universes other than Love's manifestation is not only small but nonexistent from an eternal perspective. I think I have heard this expressed as "if it ain't Love it ain't Real".
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>This last comment makes me think of a phrase, "You're gonna love each other EVEN IF IT KILLS YOU". I agree with not sweating the little things.
>>
>>>>
>>####### Love is the only Reality I acknowledge...at least from
>> Higher Ground. In daily living and interactions with "others"
>> it surely will "kill" the little false self that arrogantly
>> confuses itself with Me. Anyone who mistakes meekness for
>> weakness to the point of attempting to "run a game" is usually
>> confounded by the result. This is usually an entertaining lesson >> for all involved and quite harmless. I do meet a few who believe
>> that because "winning through intimidation" works on the streets
>> it will be effective in getting what they think they want in a
>> different setting. Often finding there is a better alternative
>> available than they dreamed of or imagined and that another actually does have their interests at heart without being "forced" to initiates an attitudinal reversal that may actually have lasting consequences.
>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Also expedient is holding an out of time perspective of Light and Life as a long range project in eternal completed perfection as held in His Mind.
>>>>
>>>>You've hit upon a point here. What makes you think the universe HAS an out of time perspective? They do where mortality is concerned because they can look down into the line. Yet, from their own level, they're as blind as we are doing linear.
>>>>
>>>>#######The word universe to me means mostly an astronomical "domain"
>> within the cosmos not the viewpoint of the beings living in it.
>> If you interpret my usage to mean the "political dominion"
>> of a hierarchical structure this at times seems to be confusing
>> our attempts at communication. I will in the future to try
>> to clarify the meaning I intend for the term if not crystal
>> crystal clear by context.
>>>>
>>>>
When I say universe - I mean the ruling government. Space - seems hardly relevant.

>>>>>>>>>>>>88888SM Satan is not a personality I would have considered as universal at this point...seems a bit of a switcheroo from the UB story?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Satan spawns from the universe. A point of origin and a basis for the understanding of a mentality. However, consider this perspective. He just might be doing his job - poor though it may be.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>+++++Everyone "spawns" from the universe...where else is there to spawn from?
>>>>
>>>>Incorrect. Those born of earth, spawned from earth. The mortal soul here had no existence before earth - thus, they did not spawn FROM the universe.
>>>>
>>>>
>> ####### I can see here a good example of my usage being confusing.
>> I did mean the "political" context in speaking of Satan as
>> a personality...then I jumped right into using it to mean
>> the entire cosmos in which this and all planets are located
>> in the very next sentence. Apology for obfuscating my own
>> point respectfully extended. Do you then refer to those mortal
>> souls having Urth as their evolutionary home world as not
>> being "spawned from the universe" because the 'declaration
>> of succession' removed this sphere from the dominion of the
>> existing universe government?
>>
You have no knowledge of, or experience with, the universe either as a spacial construct or its government. You do not reflect their attitudes and you never will. YOU were granted true freedom of choice. Thus, you did not spawn from the universe. I did, man didn't.
>>
>>>>>>All of the Beings who are now on the UB's shitlist of rebellious personalities functioned within its' constructs until a moment ago from any eternal Being's perspective. To the Supreme Being these matters are probably viewed with all the significance of boys having a snowball fight in the schoolyard.
>>>>
>>>>Not so. This is not a schoolyard pissing contest. The fate of six universes hangs in the balance and is centered on what happens here on Earth.
>>>>
>
>>
>>>>
>>>> I do remain unclear as to the function of engineering a "separation". No doubt because I'm trying to reconstuct what occurred with the finite mortal peabrain and key pieces of the equation are still absent. Satan as Lucifer's #1 theoretically might just be doing his job.
>>>>>>As our Creator Son demonstrated so well during His mortal incarnation as Jesus one can be virtually perfectly behaved and still manage to be perceived as blasphemous, crazy, and keeping company with sinners and
>>>>>>"the Prince of the Devils" not only by strangers but sometimes by family
>>>>>>members. He pissed off enough "high ranking" people who fancied themselves sufficiently important and insulted by His mere existence to warrant murder by torture. By living as a human I am having an excellent opportunity to understand insanity from the inside out even as He did.
>>>>>>I appreciate the fact He did this first so that I may understand it in the Light of shared experience. Human perceptions are unstable, unreasonable
>>>>>>and capricious.
>>>>
>>>>I disagree. Human motivations are as predictable as sunrise IF you understand the causal agents. Ironically, the same psyche exists in the universe.
>>>>
>>>>####### I do agree complete about motivations. When I speak of
>> 'perceptions' I refer more to the lens through which
>> circumstances around situations or persons form into opinions
>> that can be altered by 'spin'... and used by the unscrupulous
>> to manipulate and control anyone who abnegates the responsi-
>> bility to think for himself. Humans to my observation are
>> disinclined to utilize the option of waiting until they have
>> enough information to form a reasonable opinion prior to making
>> one.

Your arguement fails in that you place a hierarchy of miscreanse separating those who allow others to manipulate them from those who perform the deed.
You also seem to allocate greater responibility to the manipulator than to the manipulatee. Your carte blance statement about humans being unwilling to wait - seems arrogant and elitist. TOLERANCE recognizes that EVERYONE exists at their own evolutionary moment. That others do not rise to your expectation is an 'oh well', live with it.


>>
>>>>..hardly a sufficient basis for making good decisions in-
>>>>>>volving 'free will'. I cannot help thinking that evolutionary
>>>>>>animal origin is a significant handicap to making spiritual progress.
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Again, I disagree. The imposition of intellect over animal instincts is a key factor and first step on the road to ascendancy.
>>>>
>>>>####### Sure...but some one who starts out as say a seraphim doesn't
>> have to deal with climbing out of the primordial ooze to even
>> begin setting out on the road to ascendancy.

Oh really? Where did you come by this assumption? There are literally thousands of angels are there REALLY terrified that I'm going to get loose.
Their fear is greater than their reason. The difference here isn't one of psychological make up - its the fact that the circumstances that exist here on EArth don't exist there and they NEVER HAVE TO CONFRONT THE ISSUES.
Seraphim or human being, the mental and emotional makeup is mostly the same.


>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>I have nothing here to be forgiven for, least of all by myself. You are right, however, that service of this nature does leave scars. You file this under, 'if you can't stand the heat - get outta the kitchen'
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>88888SM If the heat stays on so long that the kitchen catches fire and burns down one can no longer cook in that location. Burn scars are really ugly and make skin thick and inflexible too.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Then you live with it. such is the acceptance of 'thy will be done'
>>
>>>>####### Yes!

>>>>On the subject of plaques, a friend - knowing I am given to extreme focus when in a conflict - gave me a plaque that hung over my desk and which I did read daily.
>>>>
>>>>Those who fight monsters should see to it that in the process they themselves do not become a monster and when you look into the abyss, it also looks into you.
>>>>
>>>>I took it as reminder and a warning not to become that which you stand against.
>>>>
>>>>####### Yes, Dear One...that is what I was trying to say to you...
>> The paradox of waging jihad to eventuate peace is also
>> a factor.
>> To return to the topic of perception for a moment in light
>> of the above...
>> I have a favorite cartoon showing a man sitting on the hood
>> of his car looking out over a body of water and engaging an
>> enormous 'sea serpent' in conversation...he has apparently
>> just enquired of it whether it is the Loch Ness monster...
>> It responds to his query with " It all depends on your point
>> of view...to me YOU are a monster".
>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> There is of course a better way ever available as you already know. Father blesses all our doings regardless of the means attempted if the intention is pure.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>I can't say I agree with this. In a freewill society, Father tends to sit back. First hand intervention is EXTREMELY rare. Earth is one of those extremely rare exceptions. The truth is that there was no safe place within the universe to hide certain things. The only truly safe place was with Father himself. Thus, to impliment the engineering, Father HAD TO HAVE a first hand participatory role.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>Now, from a spiritual point of view, I would be in more agreement.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>88888SM The spiritual point of view is the better way envisioned. Wouldn't you consider the TA's a direct intervention by Their mere
>>>>>>>>>>Presence hidden in the mind of their subjects?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>I have a different perspective on TA's than you do, and I've noted you have a tendency to allow them more than they really have and really do. My former TA is a leader amongst her people and had never been to six or before Father. In the day to day course of events, TA's are doing their job with subtle interventions in the way of suggestions many ignore. Interventions from Father tend to be much more noticable and frequently
>>>>>>>>can come directly from Him.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>The UB's diatribe glorifies the TA without telling you how low a caste they are in the universal pecking order. Nor do they tell you that the Adams' and Eves are 16th level angels - just barely angelic.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Here again, perspective holds value.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>+++++ Yep...no way around this one. I do look at the TA in a very different
>>>>>>way. As the actual individuated prepersonal Spirit that is Father's Gift of His own Being...and fusion with It as the means of ascendancy for a particular order of created sons...as in TA's is Us if we really exist as potentially immortal personalities rather than quasi-sentient animals.
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>You achieved immortality the moment you were given a soul. I do hope you don't talk like this in person:)
>>>>
>>>>####### Oh, Just hit me with a good joke or two that lets me laugh
>> at my own pretentiousness...you'll find I lighten up quickly.
>>
>>>>>>+++++Adams and Eves are material Sons...reproducing by sexual rather than
>>>>>>projective means. Just barely angelic seems an appropriate description.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>++++++Have you ever considered the idea that all life forms are simply whatever
>>>>>>they are in a non-hierarchical manner...not 'higher or lower' or 'better or worse' merely differing and then letting go of preferences?
>>>>
>>>>THAT!!!!! was Lucifer's original point!!!
>>
>>>>####### Bless his heart...I hope everyone finally comes around
>> to understanding this!
>>
>>>>It is the universal government that separates us, categorizes us and attempts to quantify us.
>>
>>>>####### To heal that separation is the reason I AM existent.
>>
>>>> Making a practice of appreciating Creator's authorship of His creatures...like telling an artist or poet how meaningful their work is to you?
>>>>
>>>>I'd rather allow each their own perceptions instead of imposing a state sponsered Melchezidek doctrine.
>>
>>>>####### I do not concur that the sponsoring of doctrines has ever
>> disallowed anyone from having their own perceptions.

Oh really? Common Stef, you amaze me sometimes. Ever hear about the Spanish Inquisition? Factor that on a universal scale and you've got the right imagery. Sure, you can have your own perceptions but you damned well better keep them to yourself. Either that or you'd find the stake uncomfortably warm.

>>>>
>>>>Not that Father would need anything back from us but the effort to seek His Presence seems the most worthy offering a Son can give to Him . Jesus demonstrated communion with the Paradise Father as a pattern. Considering the vast gulf between His perfection and human imperfection He must have given us a practical means to fellowship with Him.
>>>>
>>>>Methinks you have a tendency to overthink a subject. If you wish to know Father or Son's motivations - ASK THEM. Otherwise, you have theological and philsophical speculations you attribute to them. High inappropriate in my opinion.
>>>>
>>>>####### OK...but I think I prefer to overthink than underthink!
>> I do ask...the responses have to sift through the dense
>> filter of mortality...you have used the term "incarnational
>> darkness" to describe your own situation and await
>> complete "repersonalization" do you not?
>>

I have, but let's face it - I'm really good at what I do:):):)

>>>> Father's own indwelling Spirit
>>>>
>>>>Father IS the spirit. He can't have an indwelling spirit.
>>
>>>>####### The UB and the Bible both state "in Him we (literally) live
>> move and have our being".

Translation: Within the soul, which is made of a piece of his living being, our personalities live.

Encircuited is a term that makes
>> sense to me as I comprehend Spirit. My Spirit encompassed
>> and pervaded by Michael's and He by Father.

Your soul is enclosed in FATHER'S BEING. It is also affected by the vibratory harmonic of The Son as that frequency spans the entire universe.
There is a science to these things.

A physical analogy
>> of this could be made as each cell in a material body
>> identifies itself genetically as part of the whole...none
>> by itself could even be "alive" yet each contributes to
>> the integrity that comprises the complete biological function-
>> ing of the particular life form. I hope this makes sense
>> through the awkwardness of the words. A clumsy comparison but
>> the best way that I can think of at present to convey the
>> concept.
>>

I think I just said the same thing in fewer less glorious words.

>>>> and the Creator Son's Spirit of Truth are the means provided to make the impossible possible. So you are correct that I esteem my TA as that with which I AM in primary relationship.

Holding your TA with esteem is one thing, glorifying your TA to be more than they are capable of is 'unreasonable'.

>>>>
>>>>Perhaps it a position of familiarty with the Son which enables me to a different perspective than you possess. You seem in need of an object of worship AND the Son is indeed entitled to it. I see him as a person with a job. Sometimes a good job, and sometimes a poor one. There is a carving at the Lair of a boy who carries a lizard on his back. A child who carries the weight of a universe much as I carry the responsibility for Earth.
>>>>
>>>>While both of our views are, in actuality, correct - I think mine holds the person of the Son in greater perspective.
>>
>>>>####### You do carry a lot of responsibility for Urantia as He does for
>> the universe of Nebadon. I have respect and regard for all who
>> seek to fulfill their responsibilities to Father well at every
>> level of existence. It is the Creator of All that I 'worship'
>> yet honor His Spirit Presence (direct or indirect) in all Life.
>> Michael is 'technically' my God in essence as time/space
>> 'transformative'

Now that's a new one on me a 'technical god'


Creator of the conciousness that thinks of
>> itself as 'me' but in our personal relationship He has never in-
>> dicated He wishes anything from me other than a willingness to
>> be present with Him.

He wants you to succeed - but the choice is yours alone.

If I 'worship' Him it is in the sense that
>> a young girl might admire, respect and 'hero-worship' a
>> magnificent older brother who is way more grown up than she
>> is...


Ok, I know what 13 year old adoration is. Consider this, it is Father's wish that one day we rise to be with him NOT has his children but as equals. Factor your adoration against this and ask yourself does it serve good purpose to remain an adoring adolescent or to grow?

I'd like to mention also, that I am having this dialogue with you using uncommon candor. I do not generally seek to challenge people as I am with you. I figure you've got it coming:):)

a beloved Friend and Teacher Who is really easy to "talk
>> to" yet always understands perfectly what is going on without
>> words even needing to be used. Always infinitely loving and
>> accepting including during corrective redirection which is
>> really difficult to explain rationally... His personality isn't
>> the least bit pretentious.
>>
>>>>I'll ask you, when you come here - if I suitably impress you that 1. the UB is wrong where I am concerned and 2. that I am truly in Father's service, are you going to deify me? I have been called the god of the Earth in the old testament and summary deification was granted many times over the course of history. Or will you see me as a person with a job and relate to me as a man - one of many men. A similar vision of The Son would be appropriate. On one hand you site Lucifer's doctrine of equality and then turn around and ignore it as it applies to the higest of us. Thus, you perpetuate the very separations that you say you don't care for.
>>
>>>>####### One night while I was reading the Code of Love I was mulling
>> over in my mind the ah...job descriptions of Hanavard and
>> Lanaforge when I 'felt' the presence of something of 'something'
>> over the house as big as the aircraft carriers up at the naval
>> base. Not recognizing the energy I asked who had dropped in for
>> a visit and was told Lanaforge...so I said uh,I didn't realize
>> you made housecalls on mortals. He just said he would but no one
>> had called up and invited him over. You could safely say I was
>> duly impressed and overwhelmed...especially after he showed me
>> in panoramic epical detail the scope of his job description.
>> Big Guy...big job but the point is sense of humor to kid around
>> has been a significant factor in the realization that being
>> significantly awed by the amount of responsibility someone has
>> hardly equals 'deification'. I guess what I'm trying to say is
>> none of my encounters with even the 'Highest' beings I've met
>> has been what could be thought of as 'intimidating'. There is
>> a deep sense of loving communion and understanding that these
>> words are inadequate to describe.
>> Anyway I'm not easily impressed nor do I need to be. The UB does
>> not have to be 'wrong' to be the opinions of the writers. They
>> admit there is a lot they don't know know even as I do.
>> If Michael hadn't suggested you could probably use u someone like me as a friend right now we wouldn't
>> be having this conversation.
>>
Incorrectamundo. I HAVE FREEWILL. Michael does not engage my behaviors any more than he does yours nor does Father. I am a fully self contained person who chooses his own path. That my journey is in the service of Father and Son is my choice - not Michael's or Father's. You see, I am not inclined to be a follower. Instead, I associate with others and do so because it is my will. This is not the product of arrogance or ego. I'd add that I am even more disinclined to 'use' you or anyone else. Greg and Al have chosen to associate with me persuant to their will. They're free to stay or go anytime they wish.

That I have chosen to share my findings with you and the others who have been invited is my recognition of Father's wishes in these matters. Again, a personal choice.

When the day arrives that you can view Father and Son as people you will have made a substantial leap forward. How many Hosannas can they hear before they've heard it all?

Cal

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

05/11/00 at 2:20 am 


Steffani Murray:

>>When I say universe - I mean the ruling government. Space - seems hardly relevant.
>>+++ I'll keep that in mind. The 'final frontier' irrelevant? And to think
Star Trek has always been my idea of heaven...

You have no knowledge of, or experience with, the universe either as a spacial construct or its government. You do not reflect their attitudes and you never will. YOU were granted true freedom of choice. Thus, you did not spawn from the universe. I did, man didn't.


>>+++ As a human this is so except for what I have read in the UB,
a few things friends who aren't from here have taught me
and a little space adventure minus the body one time.
What about this TA in my mind? It seems to have knowledge of
and experience of both that it has been willing to impart.

> circumstances around situations or persons form into opinions
>>that can be altered by 'spin'... and used by the unscrupulous
>>to manipulate and control anyone who abnegates the responsi-
>>bility to think for himself. Humans to my observation are
>>disinclined to utilize the option of waiting until they have
>>enough information to form a reasonable opinion prior to making
>>one.

>>+++Well... you know I hang out a lot around folks that are
pretty 'strung out' when I meet them and haven't been doing
their best thinking for quite a while and they really seem to
jump to conclusions more than average folks.

Nevertheless I do think people in general are rather easily
influenced by the media and those they perceive to be "in
authority". I have seen videos of psychological experiments
that demonstrate the principle to my satisfaction.

Let's look at your recent experience on UBRON...
the UB on that list is accepted as authoritative.
I seemed to see 2 threads...
the first was that the UB says Caligastia is a shithead
so we should be fearful of him or nasty to him without
bothering to listen to what he has to say although we
extend that courtesy to everyone else...
the second was the focus of the intellectual hairsplitter
types who were curious and quasi-courteous for a day or so
prior to becoming focused to a degree that precluded interest
in meaningful dialogue by obsessing over having you 'prove'
your identity to their satisfaction.They already had an opinion
about that which no amount of proof would have changed.


>>Your arguement fails in that you place a hierarchy of miscreanse separating those who allow others to manipulate them from those who perform the deed.

+++Actually I see them in a necessary balance that enables this to occur.


>>You also seem to allocate greater responibility to the manipulator than to the manipulatee. Your carte blance statement about humans being unwilling to wait - seems arrogant and elitist. TOLERANCE recognizes that EVERYONE exists at their own evolutionary moment. That others do not rise to your expectation is an 'oh well', live with it.

>>+++ No, I don't do that. I consider the responsibility to be equal.
Nor did I state my observations as a judgement.
That is just how things look to me from where I'm sitting now.
Everyone does exist at their own evolutionary moment
whether I am tolerant or not. Why would I bother to
have expectations that no one would even know about...
much less "rise to".

>>####### Sure...but some one who starts out as say a seraphim doesn't
>>>> have to deal with climbing out of the primordial ooze
to even begin setting out on the road to ascendancy.
>>
>>Oh really? Where did you come by this assumption? There are literally thousands of angels are there REALLY terrified that I'm going to get loose.
>>Their fear is greater than their reason. The difference here isn't one of psychological make up - its the fact that the circumstances that exist here on EArth don't exist there and they NEVER HAVE TO CONFRONT THE ISSUES.
>>Seraphim or human being, the mental and emotional makeup is mostly the same.

>>+++Somewhere in the dimly lit archives of my mind labelled assumptions
and sillier ideas I suppose. Loose as in not living as a mortal on
Urantia? So is it confronting issues or your teddybear self they are
terrified of? I read fear is based in animal survival instincts in
the UB which causes our seraphic guardians considerable consternation.
From where in the angelic nature does fear arise? Not of taking math
exams I'll bet.

>>You achieved immortality the moment you were given a soul.

+++ The idea of the 'soul' as a 'given' rather than a 'construction'
is not a usage with which I am familiar except the bibical Greek
pneuma or 'breath of life' meaning. As in "God breathed in to Adam
and he became a living soul". Always took this expression to mean
the direct transfer of the life spark itself and in UB usage the
gift of the Infinite Spirit through the Divine Ministers in the
time/space realms.

>>>>>>I'd rather allow each their own perceptions instead of imposing a state sponsered Melchezidek doctrine.
>>>>
>>>>>>####### I do not concur that the sponsoring of doctrines has ever
>>>> disallowed anyone from having their own perceptions.
>>
>>Oh really? Common Stef, you amaze me sometimes. Ever hear about the Spanish Inquisition? Factor that on a universal scale and you've got the right imagery. Sure, you can have your own perceptions but you damned well better keep them to yourself. Either that or you'd find the stake uncomfortably warm.

+++ Yes...Well I am amazing but I guess I'd best keep that realization
quiet or they'll accuse me of falling in love with myself and they'll say I've been hanging out with bad company is the reason and it'll be toast time for me huh? I believe I've been there and done that and it wasn't fun. {:-(


>>>>>>####### OK...but I think I prefer to overthink than underthink!
>>>> I do ask...the responses have to sift through the dense
>>>> filter of mortality...you have used the term "incarnational
>>>> darkness" to describe your own situation and await
>>>> complete "repersonalization" do you not?
>>>>
>>
>>I have, but let's face it - I'm really good at what I do:):):)
>>
+++ Awww...You only think you're that good because you are so stuck
on yourself >};-)> !!
>>
>>Translation: Within the soul, which is made of a piece of his living being, our personalities live.

>>+++ OK...I think I get it...the way you are using soul is how I
think of'spirit' and the piece of his living being in which
our personalities live is how I think of TA.

>> Encircuited is a term that makes
>>>> sense to me as I comprehend Spirit. My Spirit encompassed
>>>> and pervaded by Michael's and He by Father.
>>
>>Your soul is enclosed in FATHER'S BEING. It is also affected by the vibratory harmonic of The Son as that frequency spans the entire universe.
>>There is a science to these things.

>>+++ One I hope to learn too!

>>A physical analogy
>>>> of this could be made as each cell in a material body
>>>> identifies itself genetically as part of the whole...none
>>>> by itself could even be "alive" yet each contributes to
>>>> the integrity that comprises the complete biological function-
>>>> ing of the particular life form. I hope this makes sense
>>>> through the awkwardness of the words. A clumsy comparison but
>>>> the best way that I can think of at present to convey the
>>>> concept.
>>>>
>>
>>I think I just said the same thing in fewer less glorious words.

>>+++ Damn... You are good! }:->

>>
>>Holding your TA with esteem is one thing, glorifying your TA to be more than they are capable of is 'unreasonable'.

>>+++ I can see the writing on the wall...I must endeavor to be more
spiritually reasonable...sigh!

>>>> Michael is 'technically' my God in essence as time/space
>>>> 'transformative'
>>
>>Now that's a new one on me a 'technical god'
>>
>>+++ Oh yeah! Well, He's a really good one because He doesn't get snotty!


>>He wants you to succeed - but the choice is yours alone.
>>+++ That's the same thing He says.


>> If I 'worship' Him it is in the sense that
a young girl might admire, respect and 'hero-worship' a
magnificent older brother who is way more grown up than she
is...


>>Ok, I know what 13 year old adoration is.

+++ You got groupies?

Consider this, it is Father's wish that one day we rise to be with him NOT has his children but as equals. Factor your adoration against this and ask yourself does it serve good purpose to remain an adoring adolescent or to grow?

>>+++I am in the process of growing up as fast as is reasonable...
Children do grow up to be like their parents but it takes as
long as it takes.
Now I know you would never be intolerant of my existing at my
own evolutionary moment would you Dear One? (:hehehe:)

>>I'd like to mention also, that I am having this dialogue with you using uncommon candor. I do not generally seek to challenge people as I am with you. I figure you've got it coming:):)
>>
>> Why? Are we on candid camera or something...When do I start to feel
challenged? Hey, When you're right, you're right and I got it coming
and going!


On one hand you site Lucifer's doctrine of equality and then turn around and ignore it as it applies to the higest of us. Thus, you perpetuate the very separations that you say you don't care for.

>>+++Well...I learned that one from Michael...if he happens to share the
same "doctrine" as Lucifer that would more or less undo the idea
of separation.



>>>> Anyway I'm not easily impressed nor do I need to be. The UB does
>>>> not have to be 'wrong' to be the opinions of the writers. They
>>>> admit there is a lot they don't know know even as I do.
>>>> If Michael hadn't suggested you could probably use u someone like me as a friend right now we wouldn't
>>>> be having this conversation.
>>>>
>>Incorrectamundo. I HAVE FREEWILL. Michael does not engage my behaviors any more than he does yours nor does Father. I am a fully self contained person who chooses his own path. That my journey is in the service of Father and Son is my choice - not Michael's or Father's. You see, I am not inclined to be a follower. Instead, I associate with others and do so because it is my will. This is not the product of arrogance or ego. I'd add that I am even more disinclined to 'use' you or anyone else. Greg and Al have chosen to associate with me persuant to their will. They're free to stay or go anytime they wish.

>>+++ My,My,My...Really overreactive on that one Cal!
The 'suggestion' was given to me only at my request
and the information given only to fulfill what I think you call
logic of purpose. It was offered as a basis for me of my own free
will choice to initiate dialogue with you which you choose to
respond to or not based on your free will choices. I did not want
to waste your time anymore than you would appreciate being asked
to waste it on my nonsense. Michael is someone I willingly share my life and time with so asking Him everything seems perfectly natural
to me. Helpful, harmless and potentially beneficial to spiritual
progress are my reasons for initiating any relationship. One can't
meet everyone so I do ask that only appropriate contacts may be made
that serve Father's plan. I trust this is as it should be...
I do enjoy your interesting mind and outlook and pray you haven't
found me too insufferably boring yet.
>>That I have chosen to share my findings with you and the others who have been invited is my recognition of Father's wishes in these matters. Again, a personal choice.
>>
>>When the day arrives that you can view Father and Son as people you will have made a substantial leap forward. How many Hosannas can they hear before they've heard it all?
>>+++I used to go to churches where people said "Praise God" and thought
it service. How 'bout people+?

Only Love. Steffani.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

05/11/00 at 1:58 pm 

Caligastia:

>>>>+++ Oh yeah! Well, He's a really good one because He doesn't get snotty!
>>
Now I can say with absolute certainty you haven't met him lately. Ever seen a teenage that wasn't snotty?

>>
>>
>>
>>>>He wants you to succeed - but the choice is yours alone.
>>>>+++ That's the same thing He says.
>>
>>
>>>> If I 'worship' Him it is in the sense that
>> a young girl might admire, respect and 'hero-worship' a
>> magnificent older brother who is way more grown up than she
>> is...
>>
>>
>>>>Ok, I know what 13 year old adoration is.
>>
>> +++ You got groupies?
>>
No but I did play in a rock band once upon a time. Didn't I see you at the foot of the stage gazing up with abject adoration?:):)

>>Consider this, it is Father's wish that one day we rise to be with him NOT has his children but as equals. Factor your adoration against this and ask yourself does it serve good purpose to remain an adoring adolescent or to grow?
>>
>>>>+++I am in the process of growing up as fast as is reasonable...
>> Children do grow up to be like their parents but it takes as
>> long as it takes.
>> Now I know you would never be intolerant of my existing at my
>> own evolutionary moment would you Dear One? (:hehehe:)
>>
>>>>I'd like to mention also, that I am having this dialogue with you using uncommon candor. I do not generally seek to challenge people as I am with you. I figure you've got it coming:):)
>>>>
>>>> Why? Are we on candid camera or something...When do I start to feel
>> challenged? Hey, When you're right, you're right and I got it coming
>> and going!
>>
Given a choice - would you rather be the hammer or the nail?
>>
>> On one hand you site Lucifer's doctrine of equality and then turn around and ignore it as it applies to the higest of us. Thus, you perpetuate the very separations that you say you don't care for.
>>
>>>>+++Well...I learned that one from Michael...if he happens to share the
>> same "doctrine" as Lucifer that would more or less undo the idea
>> of separation.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>>>> Anyway I'm not easily impressed nor do I need to be. The UB does
>>>>>> not have to be 'wrong' to be the opinions of the writers. They
>>>>>> admit there is a lot they don't know know even as I do.
>>>>>> If Michael hadn't suggested you could probably use u someone like me as a friend right now we wouldn't
>>>>>> be having this conversation.
>>>>>>
>>>>Incorrectamundo. I HAVE FREEWILL. Michael does not engage my behaviors any more than he does yours nor does Father. I am a fully self contained person who chooses his own path. That my journey is in the service of Father and Son is my choice - not Michael's or Father's. You see, I am not inclined to be a follower. Instead, I associate with others and do so because it is my will. This is not the product of arrogance or ego. I'd add that I am even more disinclined to 'use' you or anyone else. Greg and Al have chosen to associate with me persuant to their will. They're free to stay or go anytime they wish.
>>
>>>>+++ My,My,My...Really overreactive on that one Cal!

Perhaps, an overreaction. I've taken some pride in my life that I've never made my living walking over the bodies of others. I will not use people unless they themselves have given me license to.

>> The 'suggestion' was given to me only at my request
>> and the information given only to fulfill what I think you call
>> logic of purpose. It was offered as a basis for me of my own free
>> will choice to initiate dialogue with you which you choose to
>> respond to or not based on your free will choices. I did not want
>> to waste your time anymore than you would appreciate being asked
>> to waste it on my nonsense. Michael is someone I willingly share my life and time with so asking Him everything seems perfectly natural
>> to me. Helpful, harmless and potentially beneficial to spiritual
>> progress are my reasons for initiating any relationship. One can't
>> meet everyone so I do ask that only appropriate contacts may be made
>> that serve Father's plan. I trust this is as it should be...
>> I do enjoy your interesting mind and outlook and pray you haven't
>> found me too insufferably boring yet.

Boring - no - Verbose - very:)

>>>>That I have chosen to share my findings with you and the others who have been invited is my recognition of Father's wishes in these matters. Again, a personal choice.
>>>>
>>>>When the day arrives that you can view Father and Son as people you will have made a substantial leap forward. How many Hosannas can they hear before they've heard it all?
>>>>+++I used to go to churches where people said "Praise God" and thought
>> it service. How 'bout people+? Only Love. Steffani.

Many times the 'praises' are a vocalization not of praise but of an attempt to support belief. I believe, I believe, I believe I believe. The real bottom line has to come when an individual realizes that belief is not the key. Actions and doing pursuant to the belief IS the key. Now if this works for these people - great. One does not have to have abject clarity of thought in order to ascend from earth. It is sufficient only that the person have 'enough'. I'm a big believer in going with what works.

Also, I'm suspicious of motivations with those given to public 'hosannas'.
For me, my religious convictions are between me and Father. I'm not given to public exhaultations. My person choice. Whatever I have to say to Father can be said directly to Him without benefit of an audience. I also feel it is EXTREME importance that, for as many as possible, you see us (angels) as people similar to yourselves. Not as high born celestial beings.

Cal


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

05/11/00 at 6:55 pm 

Steffani Murray:

Hi Dennis...I usually don't comment on earth stuff as in S.S.D.D. but the
fact that 'fallout floats' puts inane threats like these in the category of intimidating rhetoric.
Love for the poor pitiful blue-green pearl's populations because of their pathetic governments.

Steffani.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

05/11/00 at 9:45 pm 

Steffani Murray:

>>+++ Oh yeah! Well, He's a really good one because He doesn't get snotty!

>>Now I can say with absolute certainty you haven't met him lately. Ever seen a teenage that wasn't snotty?
>>
>> Actually I 'adore' adolescents but I don't worship them...or anyone in a body for that 'matter' isn't the Spirit. Kids do really have a way of keeping one on one's toes. Incarnating has the inconvenience of erasing consciousness of Identity for a while. On the other hand this state of mortality induced amnesia probably can be for some a convenient interlude to dealing with events they'd prefer to forget for a while.
>>
>>He wants you to succeed - but the choice is yours alone.
>>+++ That's the same thing He says.
>>

>>Ok, I know what 13 year old adoration is.
>>
>> +++ You got groupies?
>>
>>No but I did play in a rock band once upon a time. Didn't I see you at the foot of the stage gazing up with abject adoration?:):)

>>Probably not...I was too busy aspiring to be like my real 'idol' Janis as a backup singer for the band 'Skyhead' (acid rockers)


>>I'd like to mention also, that I am having this dialogue with you using uncommon candor. I do not generally seek to challenge people as I am with you. I figure you've got it coming:):)
>>
>> Why? Are we on candid camera or something...When do I start to feel
>> challenged? Hey, When you're right, you're right and I got it coming
>>and going!
>>
>>Given a choice - would you rather be the hammer or the nail?

>>>> Well...as much pleasure as I usually take in holding things together in this case the pain of being driven into place might negate it.


If Michael hadn't suggested you could probably use someone like me as a friend we wouldn't be having this conversation.

>>>>>>+++ My,My,My...Really overreactive on that one Cal!
>>
>>Perhaps, an overreaction. I've taken some pride in my life that I've never made my living walking over the bodies of others. I will not use people unless they themselves have given me license to.

>> I think we had a communication break down here so I want to clarify
the context. I had been enjoying our conversations on UBRON and hoped
they could continue there. I was witnessing the insanity of the
manner in which people were acting out towards you. I was debating
the wisdom of
coming over to this list to hang out with you guys to continue inter-
acting versus private e-mail or trying to have it work over there. There were a few others that also seemed to be sincerely interested in what you had to say. Sunshine was supportive until she had to move and was
being fed Bruce's version of the story and he dissed you and Dennis.
When I was informed you "could use a friend like me" it didn't mean
that you are into "using people". Quite the opposite! It is an expression meaning someone who wants to listen. You know...like in the country music songs as in:

Done lost my job down at the sawmill
My womans run off with my buddy
Now my old dog Shep up and died
and I sure could use a friend
to go drinkin' and talk with...

Well...you get my drift. Personally I choose not to use or be used by
others in the way of which you spoke. I do treasure the good
people I meet in person or on line but the ones I find to share the
matters that are really near and dear to my heart with are few and far
between. The foibles of Divine government aren't the ordinary threads
of most folks typical conversations either. So...I know you're tough
and can stand the heat and all that but most everyone way down deep
truly longs to be heard. I could be wrong and maybe you really could
care less...or just maybe you do want to be listened to by someone
who is willing to listen to everyone with equal respect.
I consider it a great priviledge to be of 'useful service'
(freely and willingly given{:-) to all of God's Sons(human or angel)
in this way . I do ask
to be guided to the places where I may serve Father's plan and purpose
most effectively.

Only Love (take 7). Steffani.


Again, a personal choice.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

05/11/00 at 10:16 pm 

Caligastia:

>>>>Given a choice - would you rather be the hammer or the nail?
>>
>>>>>> Well...as much pleasure as I usually take in holding things together in this case the pain of being driven into place might negate it.
>>
>>
>>If Michael hadn't suggested you could probably use someone like me as a friend we wouldn't be having this conversation.
>>
>>>>>>>>+++ My,My,My...Really overreactive on that one Cal!
>>>>
>>>>Perhaps, an overreaction. I've taken some pride in my life that I've never made my living walking over the bodies of others. I will not use people unless they themselves have given me license to.
>>
>>>> I think we had a communication break down here so I want to clarify
>> the context. I had been enjoying our conversations on UBRON and hoped
>> they could continue there. I was witnessing the insanity of the
>> manner in which people were acting out towards you. I was debating
>> the wisdom of
>> coming over to this list to hang out with you guys to continue inter-
>> acting versus private e-mail or trying to have it work over there. There were a few others that also seemed to be sincerely interested in what you had to say. Sunshine was supportive until she had to move and was
>> being fed Bruce's version of the story and he dissed you and Dennis.
>> When I was informed you "could use a friend like me" it didn't mean
>> that you are into "using people". Quite the opposite! It is an expression meaning someone who wants to listen. You know...like in the country music songs as in:
>>
>> Done lost my job down at the sawmill
>> My womans run off with my buddy
>> Now my old dog Shep up and died
>> and I sure could use a friend
>> to go drinkin' and talk with...
>>
>> Well...you get my drift. Personally I choose not to use or be used by
>> others in the way of which you spoke. I do treasure the good
>> people I meet in person or on line but the ones I find to share the
>> matters that are really near and dear to my heart with are few and far
>> between. The foibles of Divine government aren't the ordinary threads
>> of most folks typical conversations either. So...I know you're tough
>> and can stand the heat and all that but most everyone way down deep
>> truly longs to be heard. I could be wrong and maybe you really could
>> care less...or just maybe you do want to be listened to by someone
>> who is willing to listen to everyone with equal respect.

For me, I realize it's a numbers game. Jesus didn't score 100% and I'm reasonably certain I won't either. Do I want people to listen? Sure, but there are limits as to where I'm going to go. As always, my focus is on mission objectives. What you call respect, in the context, I would call common civility.

The Ghostwolf incident has served to thwart delivery of the word. This may change shortly.

Cal
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

05/12/00 at 7:56 pm 

Steffani Murray:

Cal states:
For me, I realize it's a numbers game. Jesus didn't score 100% and I'm reasonably certain I won't either. Do I want people to listen? Sure, but there are limits as to where I'm going to go. As always, my focus is on mission objectives. What you call respect, in the context, I would call common civility.

SM:Well Dear One...It seems to me that whenever your name comes up in UB lists civility becomes uncommon. I would add that ordinary respect seems in extraordinarily limited supply.{:-(
A few posts ago I discussed a few of the things mentioned in both the Bible
and the UB that were said about Jesus. Did not at least a few of those have
a familiar theme?
Also I'm sure you would not be the least surprised to hear that Warren and
Ron were hurling hateful insults in the form of fatboy jokes at each other
as recently as yesterday on UBRON and others so inclined jumped right into the fray!
You really wouldn't want to GO THERE!
I think I prefer to hang out here for a moment while the air clears.
To find "challenge" tempered by humor is a rarer form of 'respect'than
is ordinarily encountered where insults are considered to be funny.


The Ghostwolf incident has served to thwart delivery of the word. This may change shortly.

SM: I was trying without complete success to put together what occurred in this situation from the other posts on the topic. You had stated that you took this person to Angel's Lair to share the message to take back to the Native American Nations. Then it seemed he had done some kind of Judas
number by going on Art Bell's replacement's show and misusing what he had been given during this experience somehow for self-glorification rather than the intended purpose of bringing the gift of the message to the people? It is inappropriate that the disrespect of the unworthy would
"thwart the delivery of the word".

Just trying to... uh, nail it down!;->

More Only Love. Steffani.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

05/12/00 at 10:22 pm 

Caligastia:

Steffani Murray (05/12/00 at 7:56 pm) wrote:

>>
>>
>>Cal states:
>>For me, I realize it's a numbers game. Jesus didn't score 100% and I'm reasonably certain I won't either. Do I want people to listen? Sure, but there are limits as to where I'm going to go. As always, my focus is on mission objectives. What you call respect, in the context, I would call common civility.
>>
>>SM:Well Dear One...It seems to me that whenever your name comes up in UB lists civility becomes uncommon. I would add that ordinary respect seems in extraordinarily limited supply.{:-(

It goes with the territory.


>>A few posts ago I discussed a few of the things mentioned in both the Bible
>>and the UB that were said about Jesus. Did not at least a few of those have
>>a familiar theme?
>>Also I'm sure you would not be the least surprised to hear that Warren and
>>Ron were hurling hateful insults in the form of fatboy jokes at each other
>>as recently as yesterday on UBRON and others so inclined jumped right into the fray!
>>You really wouldn't want to GO THERE!

I've had enough of Ubron and, to be sure, they've had enough of me.
I fail to see the reasoning behind, 'clip and paste' your way to salvation.

>>I think I prefer to hang out here for a moment while the air clears.
>>To find "challenge" tempered by humor is a rarer form of 'respect'than
>>is ordinarily encountered where insults are considered to be funny.
>>
>>
>>The Ghostwolf incident has served to thwart delivery of the word. This may change shortly.
>>
>>SM: I was trying without complete success to put together what occurred in this situation from the other posts on the topic. You had stated that you took this person to Angel's Lair to share the message to take back to the Native American Nations.

No, wolf violated all but one of his agreements with me AND on his very first outing on the show (on the subject) told a number of blatant lies.
As such, he was unqualified for any continuing relationship with me.
Wolf has no idea what he lost. I didn't tell him the secrets of the place. I just showed him the glitz and waited to see if he'd maintain integrity.
He didn't. Subsequently, he went on shows claiming credit for my work.


Then it seemed he had done some kind of Judas
>>number by going on Art Bell's replacement's show and misusing what he had been given during this experience somehow for self-glorification rather than the intended purpose of bringing the gift of the message to the people?


Correct. However, he has nothing to give. Even if he plagerized my web site profusely, he still wouldn't have it. In the intervening two years, he's said nothing to the subject except 'I discovered the sphinx'. Not only did he not make the discovery but his apparent objective was towards his own self aggrandizement.


It is inappropriate that the disrespect of the unworthy would
>>"thwart the delivery of the word".
>>

This is Earth, sometimes - the bad guys can win. I'll keep my faith with Father though.


Cal
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

05/14/00 at 5:50 am 

Steffani Murray:

Cal (05/12/00 at 10:22 pm) wrote:

>>Steffani Murray (05/12/00 at 7:56 pm) wrote:
>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Cal states:
>>>>For me, I realize it's a numbers game. Jesus didn't score 100% and I'm reasonably certain I won't either. Do I want people to listen? Sure, but there are limits as to where I'm going to go. As always, my focus is on mission objectives. What you call respect, in the context, I would call common civility.
>>>>
>>>>SM:Well Dear One...It seems to me that whenever your name comes up in UB lists civility becomes uncommon. I would add that ordinary respect seems in extraordinarily limited supply.{:-(
>>
>>It goes with the territory.
>>888* Terrortory?
>>
>>>>A few posts ago I discussed a few of the things mentioned in both the Bible
>>>>and the UB that were said about Jesus. Did not at least a few of those have
>>>>a familiar theme?
>>>>Also I'm sure you would not be the least surprised to hear that Warren and
>>>>Ron were hurling hateful insults in the form of fatboy jokes at each other
>>>>as recently as yesterday on UBRON and others so inclined jumped right into the fray!
>>>>You really wouldn't want to GO THERE!
>>
>>I've had enough of Ubron and, to be sure, they've had enough of me.
>>I fail to see the reasoning behind, 'clip and paste' your way to salvation.
>>888*Well the reason in theory was to have fun sharing ideas...
>>>>I think I prefer to hang out here for a moment while the air clears.
>>>>To find "challenge" tempered by humor is a rarer form of 'respect'than
>>>>is ordinarily encountered where insults are considered to be funny.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>The Ghostwolf incident has served to thwart delivery of the word. This may change shortly.
>>>>
>>>>SM: I was trying without complete success to put together what occurred in this situation from the other posts on the topic. You had stated that you took this person to Angel's Lair to share the message to take back to the Native American Nations.
>>
>>No, wolf violated all but one of his agreements with me AND on his very first outing on the show (on the subject) told a number of blatant lies.
>>As such, he was unqualified for any continuing relationship with me.
>>Wolf has no idea what he lost. I didn't tell him the secrets of the place. I just showed him the glitz and waited to see if he'd maintain integrity.
>>He didn't. Subsequently, he went on shows claiming credit for my work.
>>888*Too bad...so sad. I'm sure you've heard my story about the there being only 2 tribes of indians in the universe( means cosmos here)...
the lying Blackfeet and the truth telling Whitefeet.
If you want to which is which (they look the same)
there is only 1 way to tell them apart...
You have to ask them!
Sure sounds like this guy told you with actions that spoke louder than words. Anyone who compromises their integrity has already lost all that truly matters (imnsho).
>>
>>Then it seemed he had done some kind of Judas
>>>>number by going on Art Bell's replacement's show and misusing what he had been given during this experience somehow for self-glorification rather than the intended purpose of bringing the gift of the message to the people?
>>
>>
>>Correct. However, he has nothing to give. Even if he plagerized my web site profusely, he still wouldn't have it. In the intervening two years, he's said nothing to the subject except 'I discovered the sphinx'. Not only did he not make the discovery but his apparent objective was towards his own self aggrandizement.
>>
>>
>> It is inappropriate that the disrespect of the unworthy would
>>>>"thwart the delivery of the word".
>>>>
>>
>>This is Earth, sometimes - the bad guys can win. I'll keep my faith with Father though.
>>888* No...it only looks like it for a moment longer. The 'bad guys' are already losers by having made the choices by which they have put themselves into that category.
Only Love.Steffani.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Steffani Murray:


Hi Janey...Have you ever heard the saying "those who see themselves as
whole make no demands". Christ Michael is the source of that one but he
didn't say it to me until He helped me to understand that this is true
about Me and that He sees me as an equal.(in my present state of mortality
it is a potential...in Reality it is an actualized state). If you are the one who was flying around with Gabriel listening to him sing I would hope that you would understand this about yourself.

Only Love. Steffani.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

05/14/00 at 12:32 pm 

Steffani Murray:

Hi Blackfeather! Ah, the perpetual problems of e-mail communication.
Was that to be "son" of question 3? (just kidding!) George and Gracie we
aren't...maybe more like George Burns and John Denver. I should probably just call the guy up and see if that's easier but I've been waiting until
I've read the whole website and listened to all the radio shows first as
a courtesy; so I can figure out how the things he says correlate with the
UB's version of things (or not). I think we're on the same page about a lot of things but finding a common language that works for ideas as well as facts hasn't been easy. The fact that my 'mindal patterns' have been under (undue?) Melchizedek influence for quite a while isn't helping much either.I trust that talking in person will be far easier. When we finally
have that opportunity (extra)ordinary conversation will probably answer a
few questions we may both be reluctant to even attempt until then.
I shall try to decomplexify (is that simplify?) my questions radically
until that time.
Sharing Peace and Happiness with you even Now...
Harmony for the World soon.
(the difficult we do immediately, the impossible will take a moment longer)
Love and Appreciate You...Steffani

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

05/16/00 at 8:28 pm 

Steffani Murray:

Thank you Cal...you just provided me with several hours of mindless fun!
I was going to send this info privately if the problem had not gone away
but hopefully the Draconians enjoyed the snacks. Lest you think this harsh
on the rascally rabbit let me explain. I'd bet dollars to donuts that you get lots more weird e-mails than I do because of who you are and what you do. About 6 weeks ago I found some hate mail from this Dowop on my screen.
The funny thing was it was personal to me but the vituperation was all aimed at the Father, Son and Spirit. I didn't figure that required any response on my part... but I did wonder which pit of hell it crawled out of and found the name among the many UBRON lurkers.Ignoring it worked well so
Greg's suggestion is right on target. I did not want Blackfeather to blame herself nor poor paranoid Peter, who seems to me to not be the sort to stoop to this. Even if he does refuse to use your name without 'alias' in front of it or tells the folks on UBRON that moi has 'sworn allegiance' to
you...to my chagrin but he seems of mild intention to do harm as he is far
too preoccupied defending himself against what he doesn't understand.

Only(the usual)Love. Steffani.

Cal (05/16/00 at 4:50 pm) wrote:

>>How do you keep an idiot busy for hours?
>>(scroll down)
>>
>> |
>> |
>>\|/
>> V
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ^
>>/|\
>> |
>> |
>>(Scroll up)
>>
>>

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

05/16/00 at 10:19 pm 

Caligastia:

Well,
As I recall, there was one fellow you continually used to call me alias caligastia. It wasn't Dowop either. I might go thru some of their old messages. Kinda sounds like CA.V.

Not that it really matters. You're right, I've had the full gamut of emails. One tends to develope a quick eye for them and once I've seen the genre - the delete switch works well.

The ability to hide behind a screen tends to make some braver than they would be face to face. I haven't met one yet who was willing to indulge this diatribe looking me in the eye. In any case, it goes with the territory. I figure they guy is having a rough day and needs someone to rail at.

Cal

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

05/16/00 at 11:28 pm

Steffani Murray:

Yes Cal...Peter does that alias thing but C.A. does too and I can't help but wonder if the infamous Pierre and C.A. are not one and the same person
although he denied it when I asked directly. Dowop's own brand of weirdness comes through loud and clear on his UBRON address site. He is far more snide and snarfle than Peter Holley is able to be. I think it may be out of character but he didn't say alias on ESG tonight.

O.L.Steffani.

Cal (05/16/00 at 10:52 pm) wrote:

>>I don't usually track these things down but this one caught my curiousity.
>>
>>The only person who has ever addressed me as alias caligastia and done so repeatedly was Peter Holley. This based upon a review of past postings on a
>>different forum.
>>
>>And Cinde - I tend to agree with Nina about the use of multiple handles.
>>
>>
>>
>>


Steffani Murray

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~'

05/23/00 at 2:08 pm 

Caligastia:

         

The subject of teaching came up between me and another person in email.
I'm posting my comments in the email and expanding on them as they may have relevance:

On teaching.

One should not presume to be a teacher unless and until Father has so anointed. Specific to Earth, the student will be taught by one qualified to be a teacher. Many assume themselves to having 'callings' and assumptions are usually based upon wishful thinking rather than an actual call.
The would be teacher must always take note of universal methods on these subjects.

One who wishes to be a teacher might prepare themselves to the task by using the following methods.

1. Tell the truth as you KNOW it to be. Not as you feel it, think it or
speculate. Give admittance to limitation when it arrives and then offer your speculation, clearly identifying it as such.

2. Speak in clear and concise terms that don't require people to learn a new language in order to understand. The UB's methods are crap and serve only to confuse. The applies also to 'new age speak'. Old age words are far more comprehendable.

3. Relate to the people and the subject matter by the use of practical stories that illustrate real time conditions in the lives of those listening. Allowing them to 'relate' also allows understanding of the point or principle. None of the UB material on mindfused hoodoo would help the average person understand anything. First they have to learn the language and then try to translate it. >From what I've seen on ubron and ubook - few have accomplished the feat of translation.

4. Unless you have license from Father, you always speak for yourself not
presuming to speak for Him.

Example:

Talk about TA's, mindfusion and the seven aspects of Betty Boop on Alpha
Centauri all which means zip to Joe Sixpack. Keep it simple, I tell what a
TA does in practical day to day life and always comment that they're usually mistaken for guardian angels. Most everyone understands the concept of a guardian angel. It's enough. The TA is not the door to salvation.
Assist - maybe. Yet, judgment is performed on the individual - not the TA.

If you really wish to pursue the idea of teaching, then you're going to have to give the information in the way THEY CAN UNDERSTAND, not in the way you'd like them to hear it.

5. Never challenge anyone's belief system. Never debate beliefs.

6. Never tell people they're wrong if it can be avoided. Instead, point to two options - this or that and which is better. Choose your options wisely and be certain that the counter option has direct relevance to the point. Pose a question not an indictment.

7. Melchezidek is not spoken on this planet - and for good reason.


8. The would be teacher should be aware that Father usually sends His messengers forth naked. In the movie The Stand, the four men are sent to Vegas with nothing more than the shirts on their backs. This is how it is done.

9. Expectation of reward is false. Expectation of service is true. The reward is in the service. I can think of no better label than that of
'Truthsayer'.

Cal

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

05/24/00 at 8:45 am 

Steffani Murray:

Hi Cal...I have a question or comment on items 2,4,& 9:

Cal (05/23/00 at 2:08 pm) wrote:

>>The subject of teaching came up between me and another person in email.
>>I'm posting my comments in the email and expanding on them as they may have relevance:
>>
>>On teaching.
>>
>>One should not presume to be a teacher unless and until Father has so anointed. Specific to Earth, the student will be taught by one qualified to be a teacher. Many assume themselves to having 'callings' and assumptions are usually based upon wishful thinking rather than an actual call.
>>The would be teacher must always take note of universal methods on these subjects.
>>
>>
>>
>>One who wishes to be a teacher might prepare themselves to the task by using the following methods.
>>
>>1. Tell the truth as you KNOW it to be. Not as you feel it, think it or
>>speculate. Give admittance to limitation when it arrives and then offer your speculation, clearly identifying it as such.
>>
>>2. Speak in clear and concise terms that don't require people to learn a new language in order to understand. The UB's methods are crap and serve only to confuse. The applies also to 'new age speak'. Old age words are far more comprehendable.

>>***If someone takes up a new interest or invents a new technology doesn't
it often require learning an unfamiliar language and set of terms specific to that interest or technology to explore or utilize it? For example...
When I went to nursing school I needed to learn 'medical terminology' in order to understand what was happening to bodies during surgical procedures, understand the meaning of lab tests, and a whole lot of other
field specific matters to be able to function and communicate with others
working in these endeavors.(learning to explain these things to the patients undergoing the procedures or taking the medicines in words that they can understand so they can make informed decisions remains one of the more challenging aspects of being a "good' nurse).
A second example is that when I wanted to use a computer I had to learn a lot of unfamiliar and at first difficult vocabulary needed to utilize this machine for the purposes it can assist me to do...like talk to folks by typing e-mail messages. I am aware that there are many things I would be able to do with this computer if I take the time to learn the means to access the functions as yet unknown by me.
The UB is a little different because it is merely attempting to remind me of much that I have forgotten from the perspective of 'others'. I can 'go there' without words but to try to communicate about it in 'this world' requires language.

>>3. Relate to the people and the subject matter by the use of practical stories that illustrate real time conditions in the lives of those listening. Allowing them to 'relate' also allows understanding of the point or principle. None of the UB material on mindfused hoodoo would help the average person understand anything. First they have to learn the language and then try to translate it. >From what I've seen on ubron and ubook - few have accomplished the feat of translation.
>>
>>4. Unless you have license from Father, you always speak for yourself not
>>presuming to speak for Him.
>>
>>Example:
>>
>>Talk about TA's, mindfusion and the seven aspects of Betty Boop on Alpha
>>Centauri all which means zip to Joe Sixpack. Keep it simple, I tell what a
>>TA does in practical day to day life and always comment that they're usually mistaken for guardian angels. Most everyone understands the concept of a guardian angel. It's enough. The TA is not the door to salvation.
>>Assist - maybe. Yet, judgment is performed on the individual - not the TA.
>>
>>If you really wish to pursue the idea of teaching, then you're going to have to give the information in the way THEY CAN UNDERSTAND, not in the way you'd like them to hear it.


>>***Yes...the way you use the term TA it does remind me more of my relationship with Raz and Kyri than my TA. We are not separable entities anymore...perhaps that was the point of 'judgement'. I am at a loss for how to express this in a way that from the understanding you have stated of these matters you will not take exception to at present but it can't be helped.
A person who is becoming a dear friend uses the term 'my Spirit' and I think this is how I will refer to this relationship from this moment on with anyone who is not well versed in the way the UB uses the expression.
It conveys the meaning I understand with reasonable accuracy.
At times having the 'techno-terms' of the UB as a common language with another person does seem to be welcome convenience when it is familiar.


>>5. Never challenge anyone's belief system. Never debate beliefs.
>>
>>6. Never tell people they're wrong if it can be avoided. Instead, point to two options - this or that and which is better. Choose your options wisely and be certain that the counter option has direct relevance to the point. Pose a question not an indictment.
>>
>>7. Melchezidek is not spoken on this planet - and for good reason.
>>
>>
>>8. The would be teacher should be aware that Father usually sends His messengers forth naked. In the movie The Stand, the four men are sent to Vegas with nothing more than the shirts on their backs. This is how it is done.

>>***Yes...this is how it happens. Are you familiar with the term 'walker' that refers to someone who has given over all of their being to Father's service?

>>9. Expectation of reward is false. Expectation of service is true. The reward is in the service. I can think of no better label than that of
>>'Truthsayer'.

>>***Truth is truly itself the greatest reward...the joy found by it's
service is only the inevitable happy outcome. ~{:-)

Only Love. Steffani.

(hey, you're the honcho that appointed me the 'designated smartass'...
remember?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

05/24/00 at 11:07 am       

Caligastia:

>>>>2. Speak in clear and concise terms that don't require people to learn a new language in order to understand. The UB's methods are crap and serve only to confuse. The applies also to 'new age speak'. Old age words are far more comprehendable.
>>
>>>>***If someone takes up a new interest or invents a new technology doesn't
>>it often require learning an unfamiliar language and set of terms specific to that interest or technology to explore or utilize it? For example...
>>When I went to nursing school I needed to learn 'medical terminology' in order to understand what was happening to bodies during surgical procedures, understand the meaning of lab tests, and a whole lot of other
>>field specific matters to be able to function and communicate with others
>>working in these endeavors.(learning to explain these things to the patients undergoing the procedures or taking the medicines in words that they can understand so they can make informed decisions remains one of the more challenging aspects of being a "good' nurse).
>>A second example is that when I wanted to use a computer I had to learn a lot of unfamiliar and at first difficult vocabulary needed to utilize this machine for the purposes it can assist me to do...like talk to folks by typing e-mail messages. I am aware that there are many things I would be able to do with this computer if I take the time to learn the means to access the functions as yet unknown by me.


Every 'trade' has its own lingo. If one is going to enter the 'trade' of the human soul - then the lingo was set millions of years ago. There is no 'new' craft here.

On occasion someone hits me with some newage term that makes no sense to me at all. I tell em I don't speak new age - translate what you just said to the concept. They do - I then know what they're talking about.

Did you hear of Jesus running around talking UB or New Age Hyper Lingo?
No, he spoke in the common tongue of the common man. His methods serve to be a good template for the would be Truthsayer.

>>The UB is a little different because it is merely attempting to remind me of much that I have forgotten from the perspective of 'others'. I can 'go there' without words but to try to communicate about it in 'this world' requires language.


How can you be reminded of that which you have never been a part of?
Mankind is not of the universe and will never set foot in this universe
except to travel though it to another.

>>>>4. Unless you have license from Father, you always speak for yourself not
>>>>presuming to speak for Him.
>>>>
>>>>Example:
>>>>
>>>>Talk about TA's, mindfusion and the seven aspects of Betty Boop on Alpha
>>>>Centauri all which means zip to Joe Sixpack. Keep it simple, I tell what a
>>>>TA does in practical day to day life and always comment that they're usually mistaken for guardian angels. Most everyone understands the concept of a guardian angel. It's enough. The TA is not the door to salvation.
>>>>Assist - maybe. Yet, judgment is performed on the individual - not the TA.
>>>>
>>>>If you really wish to pursue the idea of teaching, then you're going to have to give the information in the way THEY CAN UNDERSTAND, not in the way you'd like them to hear it.
>>
>>
>>>>***Yes...the way you use the term TA it does remind me more of my relationship with Raz and Kyri than my TA. We are not separable entities anymore...perhaps that was the point of 'judgement'. I am at a loss for how to express this in a way that from the understanding you have stated of these matters you will not take exception to at present but it can't be helped.


'At a loss' - When you stand in front of a group of people, speaking UB/Newage Double Speak and you see a sea of blank uncomprehending faces looking back at you because they didn't understand a word you said - you'll begin to understand.


>>A person who is becoming a dear friend uses the term 'my Spirit' and I think this is how I will refer to this relationship from this moment on with anyone who is not well versed in the way the UB uses the expression.


Spirit and Soul are interchangeable. 'My angel' would be specific to one's TA.


>>It conveys the meaning I understand with reasonable accuracy.

It conveys YOUR meaning. Now, Dennis uses the term 'my spirit' and I've become accustomed to the fact he's talking about his TA. However, precision in thought and word is best when it can be achieved. If the Truthsayer speaks in ambigous terms left open to interpretation - the message delivered runs considerable risk of not being received.


>>At times having the 'techno-terms' of the UB as a common language with another person does seem to be welcome convenience when it is familiar.
>>
>>

This would be true only if you were in the company of those who also spoke UB. And, whose convenience are we addressing - yours or the people to whom you speak?

>>>>
>>>>8. The would be teacher should be aware that Father usually sends His messengers forth naked. In the movie The Stand, the four men are sent to Vegas with nothing more than the shirts on their backs. This is how it is done.
>>
>>>>***Yes...this is how it happens. Are you familiar with the term 'walker' that refers to someone who has given over all of their being to Father's service?
>>

No - I hadn't heard that one. However, Buddist monks upon their graduation are thrown out the doors of the monestary and told to go beg for their sustanance. They serve as truthsayers and depend totally upon their flock.
Valuable lessons are learned from the methodology.


>>>>9. Expectation of reward is false. Expectation of service is true. The reward is in the service. I can think of no better label than that of
>>>>'Truthsayer'.
>>
>>>>***Truth is truly itself the greatest reward...the joy found by it's
>>service is only the inevitable happy outcome. ~{:-)
>>
It's a good thing to keep sight of, for the road can be a bumpy one.

Cal
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

05/24/00 at 2:02 pm 

Steffani Murray:

Hi Allie...It's not a lack of intelligence on your part that prevented you from scoring well or that slowed you down but a simple lack of familiarity with the language and artifacts of a culture foreign to you. Keith's difficulty was the fact that his eyes and brain see and process differently from the way that the persons who invent i.q. tests do. Surely taking the time to realize one another's differences don't of themselves make us more or less smart or good than others will give us the opportunity to be respectful and tolerant of each other. Seeing something through someone else's point of view can be a chance to grow in understanding if we want to. Diversity is for appreciating as far as I'm concerned. Really looking forward to meeting you in Colorado.
Love to You. Steffani.


Allie (05/24/00 at 12:50 pm) wrote:

>>142 - But I took 16 minutes, so I guess my answer is null and void as I over shot the time limit.
>>
>>Also, I haven't a clue what a nickle or a dime is !!!!!!! I would guess that a quarter is 25 cents ?? - We have rands and cents and use a good old common decimal system. Things like pounds and ounces, feet, yards and miles are for the birds.
>>
>>So Keith, I'll join you at the bottom of the list. Maybe we have other attributes that make up for our lack of IQ :)
>>
>>Allie


Steffani Murray
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

05/24/00 at 3:10 pm 

Steffani Murray:

Hi Michael Ever!
That is a really 'cool' name for someone discussing probability timelines in light of the present moment as a tool of the creator.
Can you tell me what impeccable means? I no longer have a dictionary in my home. Does it mean something like perfection beyond the possibility of reproach?
As in absolute power is past the potential for corruption because it has no capability to corrupt itself due to the fact it is absolute?

Also I wanted to read your message over on ESG but it is the only page on the site that I can't pull up. Could you e-mail it to me? My address is over on UBRON...

Only Love. Steffani.


Michael Ever (05/24/00 at 12:27 pm) wrote:

>>10. Never presume to know the nature and outcome of future events merely because one
>>has the ability to view probability timelines. It leaves one vulnerable to those who
>>understand that power is inextricably tied to impeccability. It likewise demonstrates a lack
>>of understanding of how timelines are created and for what reason. Memories are the tool
>>of the illusionist while the present moment is the tool of the creator.
>>
>>Michael

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

05/24/00 at 9:27 pm 

Steffani Murray:

Cal (05/24/00 at 11:07 am) wrote:

>>
>>>>>>2. Speak in clear and concise terms that don't require people to learn a new language in order to understand. The UB's methods are crap and serve only to confuse. The applies also to 'new age speak'. Old age words are far more comprehendable.
>>>>
>>>>>>***If someone takes up a new interest or invents a new technology doesn't
>>>>it often require learning an unfamiliar language and set of terms specific to that interest or technology to explore or utilize it? For example...
>>>>When I went to nursing school I needed to learn 'medical terminology' in order to understand what was happening to bodies during surgical procedures, understand the meaning of lab tests, and a whole lot of other
>>>>field specific matters to be able to function and communicate with others
>>>>working in these endeavors.(learning to explain these things to the patients undergoing the procedures or taking the medicines in words that they can understand so they can make informed decisions remains one of the more challenging aspects of being a "good' nurse).
>>>>A second example is that when I wanted to use a computer I had to learn a lot of unfamiliar and at first difficult vocabulary needed to utilize this machine for the purposes it can assist me to do...like talk to folks by typing e-mail messages. I am aware that there are many things I would be able to do with this computer if I take the time to learn the means to access the functions as yet unknown by me.
>>
>>
>>Every 'trade' has its own lingo. If one is going to enter the 'trade' of the human soul - then the lingo was set millions of years ago. There is no 'new' craft here.

>>888 Do you think terms would be more easily recognized in Sumerian, ancient Hebrew or Egyptian? They all named things and situations as need arose just like modern science does.

>>On occasion someone hits me with some newage term that makes no sense to me at all. I tell em I don't speak new age - translate what you just said to the concept. They do - I then know what they're talking about.
>>
>>Did you hear of Jesus running around talking UB or New Age Hyper Lingo?
>>No, he spoke in the common tongue of the common man. His methods serve to be a good template for the would be Truthsayer.
>>
>>888 He would have told His apostles all they could comprehend of truth.
He must have told them of things they had not dreamed of or imagined
being Who He is. Words existed for these places and things that he
knew. Why would He not have employed them. He wasn't shy about
telling them there were things He would have to tell them 'later'.
>>
>>>>The UB is a little different because it is merely attempting to remind me of much that I have forgotten from the perspective of 'others'. I can 'go there' without words but to try to communicate about it in 'this world' requires language.
>>
>>
>>How can you be reminded of that which you have never been a part of?
>>Mankind is not of the universe and will never set foot in this universe
>>except to travel though it to another.

>>888 The genetic mudpie knows only the planetary chemicals it is made
of...but my Spirit remembers where It came from and other mudpies
It has known. This particular mudpie deconstructed itself on one
occasion and the Being realized what it Is.
>>
>>
>>>>>>4. Unless you have license from Father, you always speak for yourself not
>>>>>>presuming to speak for Him.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Example:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Talk about TA's, mindfusion and the seven aspects of Betty Boop on Alpha
>>>>>>Centauri all which means zip to Joe Sixpack. Keep it simple, I tell what a
>>>>>>TA does in practical day to day life and always comment that they're usually mistaken for guardian angels. Most everyone understands the concept of a guardian angel. It's enough. The TA is not the door to salvation.
>>>>>>Assist - maybe. Yet, judgment is performed on the individual - not the TA.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>If you really wish to pursue the idea of teaching, then you're going to have to give the information in the way THEY CAN UNDERSTAND, not in the way you'd like them to hear it.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>***Yes...the way you use the term TA it does remind me more of my relationship with Raz and Kyri than my TA. We are not separable entities anymore...perhaps that was the point of 'judgement'. I am at a loss for how to express this in a way that from the understanding you have stated of these matters you will not take exception to at present but it can't be helped.
>>
>>
>>'At a loss' - When you stand in front of a group of people, speaking UB/Newage Double Speak and you see a sea of blank uncomprehending faces looking back at you because they didn't understand a word you said - you'll begin to understand.

>>888 This usually does not occur. I can usually find words people can
understand by consulting my on board Translator for alternatives.
However if they have volunteered to show up for an intro to the UB
workshop I encourage them first relating to learning the new language
same as for any new course of study and do expect them to try to
reach since they've expressed interest.
>>
>>>>A person who is becoming a dear friend uses the term 'my Spirit' and I think this is how I will refer to this relationship from this moment on with anyone who is not well versed in the way the UB uses the expression.
>>
>>
>>Spirit and Soul are interchangeable. 'My angel' would be specific to one's TA.

>>888 Spirit (to me) means the activating agent of Mind...soul what it
produces out of the interactions with experience in whatever form it
finds itself. The seraphim that 'hang out' with me are energetic
inspirational assistants in the process as we seem to be assigned to
work together at this time.

>>
>>>>It conveys the meaning I understand with reasonable accuracy.
>>
>>It conveys YOUR meaning. Now, Dennis uses the term 'my spirit' and I've become accustomed to the fact he's talking about his TA. However, precision in thought and word is best when it can be achieved. If the Truthsayer speaks in ambigous terms left open to interpretation - the message delivered runs considerable risk of not being received.

>>888 Well this usage was easily understood. It isn't usually all that
hard to figure out what someone is talking about if you pay careful
attention to the context of conversation and how it flows.

>>
>>>>At times having the 'techno-terms' of the UB as a common language with another person does seem to be welcome convenience when it is familiar.
>>>>
>>>>
>>This would be true only if you were in the company of those who also spoke UB. And, whose convenience are we addressing - yours or the people to whom you speak?

>>888 Well yes, I was referring to other UB readers here. I have a friend
who is an astrophysicist who knows I enjoy discussing ideas in this
his field of expertise but he downsteps and simplifies enough of the
technical 'lingo' as a courtesy so that I may participate in a
conversation...a concession he would not need to make to converse
meaningfully with a fellow scientist at a comparable educational
level. It stretches my envelope to learn more because of the willing-
ness to enable my understandings from the level they exist on now...
rather than just saying the subjects are too difficult for
the uninitiated to comprehend without an adequate knowledge base.

>>>>>>
>>>>>>8. The would be teacher should be aware that Father usually sends His messengers forth naked. In the movie The Stand, the four men are sent to Vegas with nothing more than the shirts on their backs. This is how it is done.
>>>>
>>>>>>***Yes...this is how it happens. Are you familiar with the term 'walker' that refers to someone who has given over all of their being to Father's service?
>>>>
>>
>>No - I hadn't heard that one. However, Buddist monks upon their graduation are thrown out the doors of the monestary and told to go beg for their sustanance. They serve as truthsayers and depend totally upon their flock.
>>Valuable lessons are learned from the methodology.

>>888 Jesus on at least one occasion sent the apostles out to teach
and preach with nothing telling them the workmen were worthy of
their hire. Must be one of the more ubiquitous patterns...:-)))
>>
>>>>>>9. Expectation of reward is false. Expectation of service is true. The reward is in the service. I can think of no better label than that of
>>>>>>'Truthsayer'.
>>>>
>>>>>>***Truth is truly itself the greatest reward...the joy found by it's
>>>>service is only the inevitable happy outcome. ~{:-)
>>>>
>>It's a good thing to keep sight of, for the road can be a bumpy one.


>>888 Well you probably know that better than just about anyone,huh?

Steffani

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

05/24/00 at 10:49 pm 

Caligastia:

>>>>Every 'trade' has its own lingo. If one is going to enter the 'trade' of the human soul - then the lingo was set millions of years ago. There is no 'new' craft here.
>>
>>>>888 Do you think terms would be more easily recognized in Sumerian, ancient Hebrew or Egyptian? They all named things and situations as need arose just like modern science does.
>>

New age (for example) is a reworking of old concepts. How many thousands of people speak newage versus how many who speak Christianity, Islam and Judiac languages (all three have a common root). One addresses a minority and the other addresses a majority. However, add to this the face that the newager also speaks the old tongue. It follows that the common language for all is in the old language.


>>>>On occasion someone hits me with some newage term that makes no sense to me at all. I tell em I don't speak new age - translate what you just said to the concept. They do - I then know what they're talking about.
>>>>
>>>>Did you hear of Jesus running around talking UB or New Age Hyper Lingo?
>>>>No, he spoke in the common tongue of the common man. His methods serve to be a good template for the would be Truthsayer.
>>>>
>>>>888 He would have told His apostles all they could comprehend of truth.
>> He must have told them of things they had not dreamed of or imagined
>> being Who He is.

I find this unlikely. I'd submit he told them to the limits of their ability to understand the concept.

Words existed for these places and things that he
>> knew. Why would He not have employed them. He wasn't shy about
>> telling them there were things He would have to tell them 'later'.

Talking about Jerusem, the Sea of Glass and other things have as much relevance and the UB's rendition of them. You've not seen it, you're not going to see it and you have no way to ascertain the veracity of the verse by first hand experience or observation. You can create a belief system around it - but it will not rise to a reality system. Your proposition states (left handedly) that The Son indulges behaviors for no good purpose.
I'd disagree.
>>>>

>>>>>>The UB is a little different because it is merely attempting to remind me of much that I have forgotten from the perspective of 'others'.

This was not the purpose of the UB. Your proposition of being of 'other than' earthly origin lacks a factual basis. Unless and until it does,
don't you think it reasonable to accept what you know as opposed to that which has yet to be proven?

>>>>
>>>>How can you be reminded of that which you have never been a part of?
>>>>Mankind is not of the universe and will never set foot in this universe
>>>>except to travel though it to another.
>>
>>>>888 The genetic mudpie knows only the planetary chemicals it is made
>> of...but my Spirit remembers where It came from and other mudpies
>> It has known. This particular mudpie deconstructed itself on one
>> occasion and the Being realized what it Is.
>>>>
If this is so, then the 'memory' should be able to be confirmed by hard and fast evidence. Using myself as an exemplar - I had a memory - followed it and found The Lair. One begat the other and served as a confirmation of the memory. This procedure was followed many times on different subjects and the 'memory' proved valid. Lacking proofs and confirmations a memory can not be assumed valid. Proceeding on the assumption that it does opens the door to delusion and megadisappointments not to mention (in the extreme)
psychosis.


>>>>
>>>>'At a loss' - When you stand in front of a group of people, speaking UB/Newage Double Speak and you see a sea of blank uncomprehending faces looking back at you because they didn't understand a word you said - you'll begin to understand.
>>
>>>>888 This usually does not occur. I can usually find words people can
>> understand by consulting my on board Translator for alternatives.
>> However if they have volunteered to show up for an intro to the UB
>> workshop I encourage them first relating to learning the new language
>> same as for any new course of study and do expect them to try to
>> reach since they've expressed interest.

Yes, but your audience is already preconditioned to the UB. Hardly a test of communications skills.
>>>>
>>>>>>A person who is becoming a dear friend uses the term 'my Spirit' and I think this is how I will refer to this relationship from this moment on with anyone who is not well versed in the way the UB uses the expression.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Spirit and Soul are interchangeable. 'My angel' would be specific to one's TA.
>>
>>>>888 Spirit (to me) means the activating agent of Mind...soul what it
>> produces out of the interactions with experience in whatever form it>> finds itself. The seraphim that 'hang out' with me are energetic
>> inspirational assistants in the process as we seem to be assigned to
>> work together at this time.

Are you assuming that TA's are Seraphim?

I disagree with your definition and your qualification of 'to me'.

Wouldn't it be better to be able to speak of the soul for what it IS to everyone?

>>>>
>>>>>>It conveys the meaning I understand with reasonable accuracy.
>>>>
>>>>It conveys YOUR meaning. Now, Dennis uses the term 'my spirit' and I've become accustomed to the fact he's talking about his TA. However, precision in thought and word is best when it can be achieved. If the Truthsayer speaks in ambigous terms left open to interpretation - the message delivered runs considerable risk of not being received.
>>
>>>>888 Well this usage was easily understood. It isn't usually all that
>> hard to figure out what someone is talking about if you pay careful
>> attention to the context of conversation and how it flows.
>>
>>>>

Perhaps it isn't hard for YOU. Can you expect that people who do not share your evolutionary moment to be possessed of the same ability? What you essentially said in the prior paragraph is you can translate the words of other which do not conform to a globally accepted paradigm. Good for you.
Bad for everyone else who can't.

>>
>>>>888 Jesus on at least one occasion sent the apostles out to teach
>> and preach with nothing telling them the workmen were worthy of
>> their hire. Must be one of the more ubiquitous patterns...:-)))

Mark it as how Father wishes those who proceed in His name to work. He will supply what is needed in the journey.


>>>>888 Well you probably know that better than just about anyone,huh?
>>
>>
>>
I've had my portion.

Cal
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

05/25/00 at 10:40 pm 

Steffani Murray:

Cal (05/24/00 at 10:49 pm) wrote:

>>
>>>>>>Every 'trade' has its own lingo. If one is going to enter the 'trade' of the human soul - then the lingo was set millions of years ago. There is no 'new' craft here.
>>>>
>>>>>>888 Do you think terms would be more easily recognized in Sumerian, ancient Hebrew or Egyptian? They all named things and situations as need arose just like modern science does.
>>>>
>>
>>New age (for example) is a reworking of old concepts. How many thousands of people speak newage versus how many who speak Christianity, Islam and Judiac languages (all three have a common root). One addresses a minority and the other addresses a majority. However, add to this the face that the newager also speaks the old tongue. It follows that the common language for all is in the old language.
>>
>>
>>>>>>On occasion someone hits me with some newage term that makes no sense to me at all. I tell em I don't speak new age - translate what you just said to the concept. They do - I then know what they're talking about.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Did you hear of Jesus running around talking UB or New Age Hyper Lingo?
>>>>>>No, he spoke in the common tongue of the common man. His methods serve to be a good template for the would be Truthsayer.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>888 He would have told His apostles all they could comprehend of truth.
>>>> He must have told them of things they had not dreamed of or imagined
>>>> being Who He is.
>>
>>I find this unlikely. I'd submit he told them to the limits of their ability to understand the concept.
>>
>> Words existed for these places and things that he
>>>> knew. Why would He not have employed them. He wasn't shy about
>>>> telling them there were things He would have to tell them 'later'.
>>
>>Talking about Jerusem, the Sea of Glass and other things have as much relevance and the UB's rendition of them. You've not seen it, you're not going to see it and you have no way to ascertain the veracity of the verse by first hand experience or observation. You can create a belief system around it - but it will not rise to a reality system. Your proposition states (left handedly) that The Son indulges behaviors for no good purpose.
>>I'd disagree.
>>>>>>
+++++Nothing that happens is without purpose...whether or not that pupose is evident to an observer is not a certainty...meaning is apparent only internally at times to the participant in an activity.
>>
>>>>>>>>The UB is a little different because it is merely attempting to remind me of much that I have forgotten from the perspective of 'others'.
>>
>>This was not the purpose of the UB. Your proposition of being of 'other than' earthly origin lacks a factual basis. Unless and until it does,
>>don't you think it reasonable to accept what you know as opposed to that which has yet to be proven?

+++++ It is reasonable to accept what little I do 'know' with certainty.
>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>How can you be reminded of that which you have never been a part of?
>>>>>>Mankind is not of the universe and will never set foot in this universe
>>>>>>except to travel though it to another.
>>>>
>>>>>>888 The genetic mudpie knows only the planetary chemicals it is made
>>>> of...but my Spirit remembers where It came from and other mudpies
>>>> It has known. This particular mudpie deconstructed itself on one
>>>> occasion and the Being realized what it Is.
>>>>>>
>>If this is so, then the 'memory' should be able to be confirmed by hard and fast evidence. Using myself as an exemplar - I had a memory - followed it and found The Lair. One begat the other and served as a confirmation of the memory. This procedure was followed many times on different subjects and the 'memory' proved valid. Lacking proofs and confirmations a memory can not be assumed valid. Proceeding on the assumption that it does opens the door to delusion and megadisappointments not to mention (in the extreme)
>>psychosis.
>>
>>+++++There is no 'hard and fast' evidence in the temporal/ephemeral.
The validation for me was in 3 texts with an 'out of this world's
closed feedback loop for origination point.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>'At a loss' - When you stand in front of a group of people, speaking UB/Newage Double Speak and you see a sea of blank uncomprehending faces looking back at you because they didn't understand a word you said - you'll begin to understand.
>>>>
>>>>>>888 This usually does not occur. I can usually find words people can
>>>> understand by consulting my on board Translator for alternatives.
>>>> However if they have volunteered to show up for an intro to the UB
>>>> workshop I encourage them first relating to learning the new language
>>>> same as for any new course of study and do expect them to try to
>>>> reach since they've expressed interest.
>>
>>Yes, but your audience is already preconditioned to the UB. Hardly a test of communications skills.

+++++ No...not in an introductory workshop, but I was not relating this to UB activities...it is only a significant interest. I have many others both personal and professional.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>A person who is becoming a dear friend uses the term 'my Spirit' and I think this is how I will refer to this relationship from this moment on with anyone who is not well versed in the way the UB uses the expression.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Spirit and Soul are interchangeable. 'My angel' would be specific to one's TA.
>>>>
>>>>>>888 Spirit (to me) means the activating agent of Mind...soul what it
>>>> produces out of the interactions with experience in whatever form it>> finds itself. The seraphim that 'hang out' with me are energetic
>>>> inspirational assistants in the process as we seem to be assigned to
>>>> work together at this time.
>>
>>Are you assuming that TA's are Seraphim?

+++++ Of course not...that is silly.
>>
>>I disagree with your definition and your qualification of 'to me'.
>>
>>Wouldn't it be better to be able to speak of the soul for what it IS to everyone?
>>
>>+++++ That is the point...I am one of everyone and this is a term that means different and potentially controversial things to average people. Just go ask 7 in a row the next time you go to the grocery store...or do you get the same person who scrubs your bathroom to do your shopping?
>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>It conveys the meaning I understand with reasonable accuracy.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>It conveys YOUR meaning. Now, Dennis uses the term 'my spirit' and I've become accustomed to the fact he's talking about his TA. However, precision in thought and word is best when it can be achieved. If the Truthsayer speaks in ambigous terms left open to interpretation - the message delivered runs considerable risk of not being received.
>>>>
>>>>>>888 Well this usage was easily understood. It isn't usually all that
>>>> hard to figure out what someone is talking about if you pay careful
>>>> attention to the context of conversation and how it flows.
>>>>
>>>>>>
>>
>>Perhaps it isn't hard for YOU. Can you expect that people who do not share your evolutionary moment to be possessed of the same ability? What you essentially said in the prior paragraph is you can translate the words of other which do not conform to a globally accepted paradigm. Good for you.
>>Bad for everyone else who can't.

+++++ What globally accepted paradigm ? You admittedly don't even speak metric in your response to Allie :-)) Just because I have a lot of experience in decoding neologisms and word salad doesn't make me 'special'.
You should have the opportunity to read the wonderful post Dennis sent me today that was mentioned on ESG about entymology...speaking of 'lingo'. I will send it your way just because you're being obtuse on purpose!
>>
>>
>>
>>>>
>>>>>>888 Jesus on at least one occasion sent the apostles out to teach
>>>> and preach with nothing telling them the workmen were worthy of
>>>> their hire. Must be one of the more ubiquitous patterns...:-)))
>>
>>Mark it as how Father wishes those who proceed in His name to work. He will supply what is needed in the journey.

>+++++ Now that is a fact that has been proven over and over albeit often at the last moment as a test of faith and trust.
>>
>>>>>>888 Well you probably know that better than just about anyone,huh?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>I've had my portion.
>>
>>Cal


Steffani Murray
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

05/25/00 at 11:05 pm

 Steffani Murray:

Cal...if you were referring to the trustees of the Urantia Foundation Sandy is quite right that they are certainly in no position to represent Gabriel. They may have a propensity towards litigation which no doubt has eaten away the potential for profit and they are fully human. I've met 4 of them and have attended a spiritual retreat with one. Another is an old hippie that was good at business. These have replaced others who had problems. Their decisions may not always seem to be reasonable. In fact the Foundation often seems to work in ways counterproductive to the interests of the readership it should serve...but these guys make the best decisions they can in sincerety. I say that although I wholeheartedly think the one they made to sue Harry is more megastupid than the last one. They would hardly be fit to hear your case against the UB authors in fairness.
Steffani.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


05/26/00 at 11:06 am 

Caligastia:

>>>>>>>>
>>>>If this is so, then the 'memory' should be able to be confirmed by hard and fast evidence. Using myself as an exemplar - I had a memory - followed it and found The Lair. One begat the other and served as a confirmation of the memory. This procedure was followed many times on different subjects and the 'memory' proved valid. Lacking proofs and confirmations a memory can not be assumed valid. Proceeding on the assumption that it does opens the door to delusion and megadisappointments not to mention (in the extreme) psychosis.
>>>>
>>>>+++++There is no 'hard and fast' evidence in the temporal/ephemeral.
>> The validation for me was in 3 texts with an 'out of this world's
>> closed feedback loop for origination point.
>>>>>>>>

Perhaps there is evidence. The question is whether or not you've looked.


>>>>Yes, but your audience is already preconditioned to the UB. Hardly a test of communications skills.
>>
>> +++++ No...not in an introductory workshop, but I was not relating this to UB activities...it is only a significant interest. I have many others both personal and professional.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>A person who is becoming a dear friend uses the term 'my Spirit' and I think this is how I will refer to this relationship from this moment on with anyone who is not well versed in the way the UB uses the expression.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Spirit and Soul are interchangeable. 'My angel' would be specific to one's TA.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>888 Spirit (to me) means the activating agent of Mind...soul what it
>>>>>> produces out of the interactions with experience in whatever form it>> finds itself. The seraphim that 'hang out' with me are energetic
>>>>>> inspirational assistants in the process as we seem to be assigned to
>>>>>> work together at this time.
>>>>
>>>>Are you assuming that TA's are Seraphim?
>>
>> +++++ Of course not...that is silly.
>>>>
>>>>I disagree with your definition and your qualification of 'to me'.
>>>>
>>>>Wouldn't it be better to be able to speak of the soul for what it IS to everyone?
>>>>
>>>>+++++ That is the point...I am one of everyone and this is a term that means different and potentially controversial things to average people. Just go ask 7 in a row the next time you go to the grocery store...or do you get the same person who scrubs your bathroom to do your shopping?
>>>>

Would it not be better that there was one definition for all? Reflecting the one truth of it all? How nice it would be if we all shared a common language.

>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>It conveys the meaning I understand with reasonable accuracy.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>It conveys YOUR meaning. Now, Dennis uses the term 'my spirit' and I've become accustomed to the fact he's talking about his TA. However, precision in thought and word is best when it can be achieved. If the Truthsayer speaks in ambigous terms left open to interpretation - the message delivered runs considerable risk of not being received.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>888 Well this usage was easily understood. It isn't usually all that
>>>>>> hard to figure out what someone is talking about if you pay careful
>>>>>> attention to the context of conversation and how it flows.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Perhaps it isn't hard for YOU. Can you expect that people who do not share your evolutionary moment to be possessed of the same ability? What you essentially said in the prior paragraph is you can translate the words of other which do not conform to a globally accepted paradigm. Good for you.
>>>>Bad for everyone else who can't.
>>
>> +++++ What globally accepted paradigm ? You admittedly don't even speak metric in your response to Allie :-)) Just because I have a lot of experience in decoding neologisms and word salad doesn't make me 'special'.
>>You should have the opportunity to read the wonderful post Dennis sent me today that was mentioned on ESG about entymology...speaking of 'lingo'. I will send it your way just because you're being obtuse on purpose!
>>>>

I'll agree one of us is running the risk of being obtuse.

There IS a one world paradigm even though it is fragmented under different names of the various major religions. The same concepts apply in most cultures. The indigenous peoples of the Americas have different names than the Aborigines of Australia who have different names than the Hindus, The Jews, the Christians, the Moslems and so on. When one breaks the words down to the concept - there exists one global paradigm - reflecting the one truth - Father. Creating a 'simple language' that speaks to the concept rather than some 'ideal' is the shortest distance in communication.

>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>888 Jesus on at least one occasion sent the apostles out to teach
>>>>>> and preach with nothing telling them the workmen were worthy of
>>>>>> their hire. Must be one of the more ubiquitous patterns...:-)))
>>>>
>>>>Mark it as how Father wishes those who proceed in His name to work. He will supply what is needed in the journey.
>>
>>>+++++ Now that is a fact that has been proven over and over albeit often at the last moment as a test of faith and trust.
>>>>


I'm not certain that it was a test of faith even though one finds their faith or not. I think Father prefers an empty vessel. A person who has quieted the turmoil of their lives so that he can be heard over the din.

Cal

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

05/26/00 at 11:18 am 

Caligastia:

Steffani Murray (05/25/00 at 11:05 pm) wrote:

>>
>>
>> Cal...if you were referring to the trustees of the Urantia Foundation Sandy is quite right that they are certainly in no position to represent Gabriel.


First, Gabriel would no longer pursue his original proposition as he's now in the loop. Second, I disagree strongly. If YOU were to get on tv proffering slander and defamatory comments - YOU are held liable for YOUR
actions.

In this case, the UB promotes itself as the 'seller' (for sandy) of a revelation. It holds itself out as the universal agent of truth on Earth
promoting an assignment given to them by celestial sources. As their local 'agent' who commits the slander and defamation AND does so for their own profit and aggrandizement; they have already declared themselves competent to the task.

They may have a propensity towards litigation which no doubt has eaten away the potential for profit and they are fully human.

Does being 'human' lessen ones responsibility for their own actions?

I've met 4 of them and have attended a spiritual retreat with one. Another is an old hippie that was good at business. These have replaced others who had problems. Their decisions may not always seem to be reasonable. In fact the Foundation often seems to work in ways counterproductive to the interests of the readership it should serve...

Doesn't this tell you something? Your operating premise is false. They do not work for the benefit of their readership. You state the facts.
They are overly litigious (courts award money) and dedicated to preserving their copyrights (ability to earn exclusive monies for a work they purport to be of their own unique authorship - ownership). The obvious inference from the facts is that their prime interest is in their own bottom line and not its readership.

I'd submit that their efforts are not counterproductive but precisely productive to their intents (profit and influence).

but these guys make the best decisions they can in sincerety. I say that although I wholeheartedly think the one they made to sue Harry is more megastupid than the last one. They would hardly be fit to hear your case against the UB authors in fairness.


Stef: By their own admittance THEY ARE the authors of the UB. Were this not so, they could not claim copyrights to the work. The truth does not change between dimensions.

Cal

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

05/26/00 at 3:13 pm 

Caligastia:

A new chapter is on the web site, The Global Paradigm.

This one inspired by my latest conversation with Steffani.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

05/26/00 at 9:08 pm 


Steffani Murray:

Cal (05/26/00 at 11:06 am) wrote:

>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>If this is so, then the 'memory' should be able to be confirmed by hard and fast evidence. Using myself as an exemplar - I had a memory - followed it and found The Lair. One begat the other and served as a confirmation of the memory. This procedure was followed many times on different subjects and the 'memory' proved valid. Lacking proofs and confirmations a memory can not be assumed valid. Proceeding on the assumption that it does opens the door to delusion and megadisappointments not to mention (in the extreme) psychosis.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>+++++There is no 'hard and fast' evidence in the temporal/ephemeral.
>>>> The validation for me was in 3 texts with an 'out of this world' s closed feedback loop for origination point.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>
>>Perhaps there is evidence. The question is whether or not you've looked.

>><<<### Yes...it is abundant yet not static...it remains in motion.

>>>>>>Yes, but your audience is already preconditioned to the UB. Hardly a test of communications skills.
>>>>
>>>> +++++ No...not in an introductory workshop, but I was not relating this to UB activities...it is only a significant interest. I have many others both personal and professional.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>A person who is becoming a dear friend uses the term 'my Spirit' and I think this is how I will refer to this relationship from this moment on with anyone who is not well versed in the way the UB uses the expression.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Spirit and Soul are interchangeable. 'My angel' would be specific to one's TA.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>888 Spirit (to me) means the activating agent of Mind...soul what it
>>>>>>>> produces out of the interactions with experience in whatever form it>> finds itself. The seraphim that 'hang out' with me are energetic
>>>>>>>> inspirational assistants in the process as we seem to be assigned to
>>>>>>>> work together at this time.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Are you assuming that TA's are Seraphim?
>>>>
>>>> +++++ Of course not...that is silly.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I disagree with your definition and your qualification of 'to me'.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Wouldn't it be better to be able to speak of the soul for what it IS to everyone?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>+++++ That is the point...I am one of everyone and this is a term that means different and potentially controversial things to average people. Just go ask 7 in a row the next time you go to the grocery store...or do you get the same person who scrubs your bathroom to do your shopping?
>>>>>>
>>
>>Would it not be better that there was one definition for all? Reflecting the one truth of it all? How nice it would be if we all shared a common language.

>><<<### Yes...and we do but it is non verbal...at the spoken word level Babel remains very much in evidence.


>>>>>>>>>>>>It conveys the meaning I understand with reasonable accuracy.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>It conveys YOUR meaning. Now, Dennis uses the term 'my spirit' and I've become accustomed to the fact he's talking about his TA. However, precision in thought and word is best when it can be achieved. If the Truthsayer speaks in ambigous terms left open to interpretation - the message delivered runs considerable risk of not being received.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>888 Well this usage was easily understood. It isn't usually all that
>>>>>>>> hard to figure out what someone is talking about if you pay careful
>>>>>>>> attention to the context of conversation and how it flows.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Perhaps it isn't hard for YOU. Can you expect that people who do not share your evolutionary moment to be possessed of the same ability? What you essentially said in the prior paragraph is you can translate the words of other which do not conform to a globally accepted paradigm. Good for you.
>>>>>>Bad for everyone else who can't.
>>>>
>>>> +++++ What globally accepted paradigm ? You admittedly don't even speak metric in your response to Allie :-)) Just because I have a lot of experience in decoding neologisms and word salad doesn't make me 'special'.
>>>>You should have the opportunity to read the wonderful post Dennis sent me today that was mentioned on ESG about entymology...speaking of 'lingo'. I will send it your way just because you're being obtuse on purpose!
>>>>>>
>>
>>I'll agree one of us is running the risk of being obtuse.
>><<<### At least one of us...maybe two...what if there is only One of us?


>>There IS a one world paradigm even though it is fragmented under different names of the various major religions. The same concepts apply in most cultures. The indigenous peoples of the Americas have different names than the Aborigines of Australia who have different names than the Hindus, The Jews, the Christians, the Moslems and so on. When one breaks the words down to the concept - there exists one global paradigm - reflecting the one truth - Father. Creating a 'simple language' that speaks to the concept rather than some 'ideal' is the shortest distance in communication.
>>
><<<### So if we agree to end the separation we will end the fragmentation?
One Truth...reflecting Father? What a concept! Let's do it.


>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>888 Jesus on at least one occasion sent the apostles out to teach
>>>>>>>> and preach with nothing telling them the workmen were worthy of
>>>>>>>> their hire. Must be one of the more ubiquitous patterns...:-)))
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Mark it as how Father wishes those who proceed in His name to work. He will supply what is needed in the journey.
>>>>
>>>>>+++++ Now that is a fact that has been proven over and over albeit often at the last moment as a test of faith and trust.
>>>>>>
>>
>>
>>I'm not certain that it was a test of faith even though one finds their faith or not. I think Father prefers an empty vessel. A person who has quieted the turmoil of their lives so that he can be heard over the din.


>><<<### So be it...yes...Amen.


>>
>>
>>Cal


Steffani
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

05/26/00 at 10:15 pm 


Steffani Murray:

Cal (05/26/00 at 11:18 am) wrote:

>>Steffani Murray (05/25/00 at 11:05 pm) wrote:
>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Cal...if you were referring to the trustees of the Urantia Foundation Sandy is quite right that they are certainly in no position to represent Gabriel.
>>
>>
>>First, Gabriel would no longer pursue his original proposition as he's now in the loop. Second, I disagree strongly. If YOU were to get on tv proffering slander and defamatory comments - YOU are held liable for YOUR
>>actions.
*******Good...that's one more inane argument avoided.

When you had that lady (?) come on you radio show to say every bad
thing that she could think of to say about that Greywolf guy it
only spoke to the fact that hell hath no fury like a woman scorned.
All it told me about you is that you think truth seekers would be
willing to listen to he/said she/said trash each other stuff...this
is entirely irrelevant to the fact that these people...both of them
obviously 'get off' on reprehensible behavior and airing their dirty
undies publically. I wouldn't hold you responsible for her words...
only that you provided her a forum to attempt to vent her wrath to
vindicate the fact he let you down...as well as violated a sacred
trust. The two matters were in no way comparable nor relevant
(imnsho).


>>>>In this case, the UB promotes itself as the 'seller' (for sandy) of a revelation. It holds itself out as the universal agent of truth on Earth
>>promoting an assignment given to them by celestial sources. As their local 'agent' who commits the slander and defamation AND does so for their own profit and aggrandizement; they have already declared themselves competent to the task.
>>
>>*******Some guys in the 50's decided to publish a very strange book
transmitted through a sleeping patient of a well known and
regarded shrink...they didn't make the stuff up except by asking
questions and it is doubtful that anyone would have even thought
the material would ever be personallyconsidered slanderous to any
person living on the planet a human. Intent is situationally
relevant.
>>
>>They may have a propensity towards litigation which no doubt has eaten away the potential for profit and they are fully human.
>>
>>Does being 'human' lessen ones responsibility for their own actions?

>>******* No of course not...nor does it make them responsible for the self
chosen words of those celestials they gave a forum to by
publishing their 'take' on the issues discussed. Is free speech
only an ideal worth defending when the possibility of lies or
nastiness aimed at oneself has been eliminated? You can't have it
both ways. If it don't apply let it fly...The truth will
eventually be told about absolutely everything.

>> I've met 4 of them and have attended a spiritual retreat with one. Another is an old hippie that was good at business. These have replaced others who had problems. Their decisions may not always seem to be reasonable. In fact the Foundation often seems to work in ways counterproductive to the interests of the readership it should serve...
>>
>>Doesn't this tell you something? Your operating premise is false. They do not work for the benefit of their readership. You state the facts.
>>They are overly litigious (courts award money) and dedicated to preserving their copyrights (ability to earn exclusive monies for a work they purport to be of their own unique authorship - ownership). The obvious inference from the facts is that their prime interest is in their own bottom line and not its readership.
>>******** No...money was not the issue...they had plenty. Control was the
issue. This was rationalized under the idea of 'protecting' the
copy right to preserve the integrity of the work as they see it
in the manner they thought best...the intent was righteous but
the harm wrought thereby was significant.
...perhaps the work contains a story of an analogous more
macrocosmic set of events?

>>I'd submit that their efforts are not counterproductive but precisely productive to their intents (profit and influence).
>>******* It sure don't look that way from where I've been sitting...but
everyone thinks that they are entitled to an opinion...
most folks probably don't give a flying fig newton.
>>
>>
>>but these guys make the best decisions they can in sincerety. I say that although I wholeheartedly think the one they made to sue Harry is more megastupid than the last one. They would hardly be fit to hear your case against the UB authors in fairness.
>>
>>
>>Stef: By their own admittance THEY ARE the authors of the UB. Were this not so, they could not claim copyrights to the work. The truth does not change between dimensions.
******* I think that was a legal ploy...not a fact. I suppose the various
trustees through the years could be incarnates of universal
bureaucrats but not only does that sound farfetched but even were
it so they are the souls least likely to admit to it of anyone
on the planet. They would only further defame you as 'being crazy'
were you to seriously try to engage them. (don't feel too bad...
this is the same ploy used throughout the ages for teachers of
truth...the Creator Son wasn't immune either)
>>
>>Cal
>>
>>


Steffani Murray

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

05/26/00 at 10:24 pm 

Steffani Murray:

Cal (05/26/00 at 3:13 pm) wrote:

>>Is on the web site, The Global Paradigm.
>>
>>This one inspired by my latest conversation with Steffani.
>>
>>***Wow...how kind to be considered an inspiration
and not merely a nuisance. Thanks.


Steffani

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

05/27/00 at 6:17 am 

Steffani Murray:

Cal (05/26/00 at 3:13 pm) wrote:

>>Is on the web site, The Global Paradigm.
>>
>>This one inspired by my latest conversation with Steffani.
>>
>>Dear One...You end the global paradigm with the statement:

"We are all ONE IN THE FATHER, our creator, our mentor and our progenitor."

Methinks this one whole (Holy) thought could end all separation forever.

The Moody Blues have a song with the line in it...
" When you really, really, really, REALLY realize..."

I'd like to share a favorite poem of mine by Edwin Markham:

"He drew a circle that shut me out-
Heretic, rebel, a thing to flout.
But Love and I had the will to win:
We drew a circle that took him in!"

Love in Him to All you dear Ones on this list today and always.

Steffani.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

05/27/00 at 3:00 pm 

Caligastia:

Steffani Murray (05/26/00 at 10:24 pm) wrote:

>>Cal (05/26/00 at 3:13 pm) wrote:
>>
>>>>Is on the web site, The Global Paradigm.
>>>>
>>>>This one inspired by my latest conversation with Steffani.
>>>>
>>>>***Wow...how kind to be considered an inspiration
>>and not merely a nuisance. Thanks.
>>
>>
>>Steffani

Well Stef:

Even a blind pig finds an apple once in a while:)

Cal
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

05/27/00 at 3:02 pm 

Caligastia:

Stef:

Hit me in email (lightly) and I'll give you a phone number. Dennis had the concern that I might be indulging in sacrifices of one sort or another.
I advised him that we only sacrifice Virgins on Wednesdays. I'm assuming your safe in this regard.

Cal

Steffani Murray (05/26/00 at 10:31 pm) wrote:

>>Cal (05/26/00 at 3:15 pm) wrote:
>>
>>>>For those of you partaking in the Adventure II, I'd like to do telephone interviews with you prior to your arrival here and one again, before you leave. This to form a before and after snap shot of your expectations, thoughts, anticipations etc.
>>>>
>>>>Few are going to be able to come to this place so I'd like others to be able to share your journey with you.
>>>>
>>>>Get ahold of me in email.
>>>>
>>>>Dennis - you're first:)
>>>>
>>>>Cal
>>
>>Well Cal...I'm ever willing to try anything not immoral, illegal, fattening
>>or compromising of my integrity.
>>Just let me know how I can be of help and I'll do it.
>>Only Love.
>>Steffani

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

05/27/00 at 9:22 pm 

Steffani Murray:

Cal (05/27/00 at 3:00 pm) wrote:

>>Steffani Murray (05/26/00 at 10:24 pm) wrote:
>>
>>>>Cal (05/26/00 at 3:13 pm) wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>>Is on the web site, The Global Paradigm.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>This one inspired by my latest conversation with Steffani.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>***Wow...how kind to be considered an inspiration
>>>>and not merely a nuisance. Thanks.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Steffani
>>
>>Well Stef:
>>
>>Even a blind pig finds an apple once in a while:)
>>
>>Ca
+++++++Say...Maybe it'll find more if they're pitched right under it's snout where it can smell 'em...even blind pigs need good food :-)

Only Love.
Steffani

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

05/27/00 at 9:40 pm 

Steffani Murray:

Now Cal...When have I ever hit you except Lightly with an iron fist gloved in softest velvet?
If virginity weren't a perpetual state of an innocent mind it would be difficult to simultaneously be an incarnation of Mother Godess Love! ;-)
The attempt to sacrifice purity is an excercise in futility...
Somehow sugar and honey just don't blister titanium quickly & effectively.
Only Love Sweet Angel.
Steffani.


Cal (05/27/00 at 3:02 pm) wrote:

>>Stef:
>>
>> Hit me in email (lightly) and I'll give you a phone number. Dennis had the concern that I might be indulging in sacrifices of one sort or another.
>>I advised him that we only sacrifice Virgins on Wednesdays. I'm assuming your safe in this regard.
>>
>>Cal

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

05/27/00 at 11:03 pm 

Caligastia:

Geez,
I make a joke and get a sermonette on purity.

Booooooooooooo

Cal

Steffani Murray (05/27/00 at 9:40 pm) wrote:

>>Now Cal...When have I ever hit you except Lightly with an iron fist gloved in softest velvet?
>>If virginity weren't a perpetual state of an innocent mind it would be difficult to simultaneously be an incarnation of Mother Godess Love! ;-)
>>The attempt to sacrifice purity is an excercise in futility...
>>Somehow sugar and honey just don't blister titanium quickly & effectively.
>>Only Love Sweet Angel.
>>Steffani.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

05/27/00 at 11:34 pm 

Steffani Murray:

Yes Butt it's my purity that is in question here...
(UB displeased when your integrity is maligned.)
...bad jokes can get one in trouble with H.P.'s around here!?


Cal (05/27/00 at 11:03 pm) wrote:

>>Geez,
>> I make a joke and get a sermonette on purity.
>>
>>Booooooooooooo
>>
>>Cal

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

05/28/00 at 6:52 pm 

Caligastia:

UB I got - what's an HP?
Cal

Steffani Murray (05/27/00 at 11:34 pm) wrote:

>>Yes Butt it's my purity that is in question here...
>>(UB displeased when your integrity is maligned.)
>>...bad jokes can get one in trouble with H.P.'s around here!?
>>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

05/28/00 at 9:48 pm 

Steffani Murray:

Higher Power Cal...as in designated authorities in charge.
Stef


Cal (05/28/00 at 6:52 pm) wrote:

>>UB I got - what's an HP?
>>Cal
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

05/29/00 at 10:58 pm 

Caligastia:

Had two good interviews with Aften and Dennis and an extended discussion
with Steffani. Looks like we're going to get a couple of good shows from this.

Incidentally, Steffani doesn't speak Melchezidek in person:)

Cal

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

05/31/00 at 12:58 pm 

Steffani Murray:

Hi Lenzap...you might or might not want to read a political treatise called 'the Prince' by Machiavelli.
Only Love.
Steffani.

lenzap (05/31/00 at 11:44 am) wrote:

>>Hey Cal,
>>
>>Thanks for the response. That is pretty much what I had gleaned from my own reading. I am still troubled; not sure i can see the point of making a man suffer so to settle an argument between two whom Job had never met. But then, I rarely buy into the "ends justifies the means" arguments. A dangerous slippery slope kinda thing to me. It seems to me that the "means" are....well, they just ARE; life


Steffani Murray

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

05/31/00 at 1:04 pm 

Steffani Murray:

Cal (05/29/00 at 10:58 pm) wrote:

>>Had two good interviews with Aften and Dennis and an extended discussion
>>with Steffani. Looks like we're going to get a couple of good shows from this.
>>
>>Incidentally, Steffani doesn't speak Melchezidek in person:)

******* Gee Cal...Thanks I think...Actually I do, but it was polite of you not to notice ;-)

Steffani
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

05/31/00 at 4:06 pm 

Steffani Murray:

So Cal...if you fail do you have to take the class over before taking the test again or can you just study some more and take a make up exam?
Steffani...only love.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
05/31/00 at 4:38 pm 

Caligastia:

You already know the answer to this Steffani.
Until graduation day, you can always make good.

As for me - failure isn't an option.

Cal

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

05/31/00 at 8:10 pm 

Steffani Murray:

Hi Cal:

The answer I thought I knew was that until I "make good" I don't get to graduate.
But why is failure "not an option" for you?
Aren't you allowed to make mistakes?
If not it would seem an inordinate amount of pressure...
or is it because you have already been judged as a mortal in this incarnation and empowered in the doing of Father's Will?

Only Love.
Steffani.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

05/31/00 at 8:49 pm 

Caligastia:

Steffani Murray (05/31/00 at 8:10 pm) wrote:

>>Hi Cal:
>>
>>The answer I thought I knew was that until I "make good" I don't get to graduate.

True, but it is not open ended.

>>But why is failure "not an option" for you?

I wasn't sent here to fail.

>>Aren't you allowed to make mistakes?

"Allowed is an interesting word". The mistakes I make tend to be minor and I usually catch them before others have noticed. HOWEVER, when I do make a serious one - it usually is a Doozey that everyone notices. Regardless, within the totality of the timeline - all of my actions are accounted for.


>>If not it would seem an inordinate amount of pressure...

I work well under pressure.


>>or is it because you have already been judged as a mortal in this incarnation and empowered in the doing of Father's Will?

Empowerment is a relative term. In this situation, empowered to the needs of the moment is most appropriate.

Empowerment became a possibility once judgement was passed. As with many things, the issue could be broken down by degrees of....


The difference between us is this:

Bob and Steffani are within a linear timeline. Steffani's expectations are to live a good life and be well judged - no more. Cal is not within the linear time line and Bob and Cal are the same person living simulaneously in different realities. Each reality having its own set of rules and 'empowerments'. Bob reflects Cal's mission, but as Bob is the holder of the soul, Cal's level of empowerment is less until the moment of repersonalization. Likewise, Bob's level of empowerment is greater than Steffani's but less than Cal's (this due primarily to the limitations of the genetics).

A good example might be the subject of healing. Cal can heal with a touch.
Bob, recognizing the limitations has healed only once - a dog.

I could indulge the freak show aspects in order to gain attention but see no good purpose in the healing or prophecy business. In my opinion, these things are cheap tricks that do not contribute to ascendancy.


Cal

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

06/01/00 at 7:36 am 

Steffani Murray:

Cal (05/31/00 at 8:49 pm) wrote:

>>Steffani Murray (05/31/00 at 8:10 pm) wrote:
>>
>>>>Hi Cal:
>>>>
>>>>The answer I thought I knew was that until I "make good" I don't get to graduate.
>>
>>True, but it is not open ended.
>>
>>>>But why is failure "not an option" for you?
>>
>>I wasn't sent here to fail.
>>
>>>>Aren't you allowed to make mistakes?
>>
>>"Allowed is an interesting word". The mistakes I make tend to be minor and I usually catch them before others have noticed. HOWEVER, when I do make a serious one - it usually is a Doozey that everyone notices. Regardless, within the totality of the timeline - all of my actions are accounted for.
>>
>>
>>>>If not it would seem an inordinate amount of pressure...
>>
>>I work well under pressure.
>>
>>
>>>>or is it because you have already been judged as a mortal in this incarnation and empowered in the doing of Father's Will?
>>
>>Empowerment is a relative term. In this situation, empowered to the needs of the moment is most appropriate.
>>
>>Empowerment became a possibility once judgement was passed. As with many things, the issue could be broken down by degrees of....
>>
>>
>>The difference between us is this:
>>
>>Bob and Steffani are within a linear timeline. Steffani's expectations are to live a good life and be well judged - no more. Cal is not within the linear time line and Bob and Cal are the same person living simulaneously in different realities. Each reality having its own set of rules and 'empowerments'. Bob reflects Cal's mission, but as Bob is the holder of the soul, Cal's level of empowerment is less until the moment of repersonalization. Likewise, Bob's level of empowerment is greater than Steffani's but less than Cal's (this due primarily to the limitations of the genetics).
>>
>>A good example might be the subject of healing. Cal can heal with a touch.
>>Bob, recognizing the limitations has healed only once - a dog.
>>
>>I could indulge the freak show aspects in order to gain attention but see no good purpose in the healing or prophecy business. In my opinion, these things are cheap tricks that do not contribute to ascendancy.
>>
>>
>>Cal
>>
>>
>>
>>***Christ Michael/Jesus...assures me that my 'real life' continues uninterrupted because that is the will of Father...for the moment I accept His Word on this in order to remain in form. I acknowledge this as fact.

Steffani

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

06/02/00 at 1:00 am 

Pursuant to another discourse with the well spring of UB trivia, Steffani,
another new chapter is up.

Cal

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
06/05/00 at 6:41 pm 

Steffani Murray:

Hi Cal and All...The last time I heard from Susan was on May 19th saying she had been having problems with her computer acting out...inquired about my Peter(H) issues...and said she would be picking Allie up on the 29th and driving down and be staying with her cousin.(I was initially thinking about flying to Denver not coming by way of Oklahoma)...That's as much as I know. Perhaps if her computer is up she'll say Hi! otherwise phone contact might be necessary to reach out and touch base.
Steffani

Cal (06/05/00 at 11:54 am) wrote:

>>Has anyone heard from Susan lately?
>>
>>
>>Cal

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

06/05/00 at 8:52 pm 

Steffani Murray:

Cal...There are times when it absolutely amazes me how sane and level-headed and fairminded you can be on practical matters. Your commentary was so right-on. My friend I read the UB with on Tuesdays was molested at a
Boy Scout summer camp as a 'game' by an older (still young) gay guy who was there for his second year and rather looked up to by the boys which he
took advantage of. Fortunately it didn't progress past some relatively innocuous all over touchy-feely stuff. As a Mom who raised 2 boys the
story made me shudder at how resourceful pedophiles can infiltrate groups
that parents ought to be able to count on as safe places for youngsters to go, grow and have fun learning skills.
I should also advise you though that I'm one of the people who can watch a lengthy film on cellular mitosis with avid interest and rapt attention and
was completely fascinated at all times to hear Carl Sagan's voice drone on
for as long as he was willing to discourse on any scientific topic.
I AM rather easily amused!
Only Love. Steffani.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

06/05/00 at 8:56 pm 

Steffani Murray:

Hi Susan...Glad all is well enough for you to be a go for this upcoming
adventure. Very much looking forward to meeting you. Thanks for being a
kind and thoughtful soul!
Only Love. Steffani.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
06/05/00 at 11:55 pm 

Caligastia:

>>I should also advise you though that I'm one of the people who can watch a lengthy film on cellular mitosis with avid interest and rapt attention and
>>was completely fascinated at all times to hear Carl Sagan's voice drone on
>>for as long as he was willing to discourse on any scientific topic.
>>I AM rather easily amused!
>>Only Love. Steffani


Now why doesn't this surprise me:)
Cal
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

06/08/00 at 8:59 pm 

Steffani Murray:

Hi Cal...After listening to my silly knowitall self I am appalled to have to confess to reading wrongly in the UB...I had Abbadon confused with Beelzebub...so sorry! The humble pie of being incorrect before more than just a few UB readers who would have immediately straightened me out has got to be good medicine for the ole' ego. (the ego is my definition of 'the devil' you know!);-)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

06/08/00 at 10:11 pm 

Steffani Murray:

To see this through...
O.K. I get it...The purpose of all that mayhem and destuction is to 'take
out' the materialistic culture of 'the World' and bring in the Divine Kingdom on Urth. Thinking about Abaddon as 'destroyer' reveals hidden meaning in a name...the Witnesses job doesn't look like much fun either!

It comes to my attention that Father is never ever 'wrathful'.
Michael is not angry at anyone...
He merely intends that certain behaviors be corrected.

Ergo...the humans are as usual projecting their own fear thoughts onto
God and the Holy Angels.

I AM therefore confident that we may:
Cancel Environmental Disasters.
Cancel Biological and Germ Warfare
Cancel Armageddon

This does not necessarily mean humans will not persist in utilizing these
types of suicidal actions for a moment longer until the thought of brothers as 'good guys and bad guys' abates.

God is Everyone Everywhere...
There Is Only One Absolute Power in the Universe
Shared by the Incorruptible
Enough is Enough
done deal
Times Up...
Game is Over
FATHER WINS!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

06/09/00 at 9:55 am 

Caligastia:

Steffani Murray (06/08/00 at 8:59 pm) wrote:

>>
>>Hi Cal...After listening to my silly knowitall self I am appalled to have to confess to reading wrongly in the UB...I had Abbadon confused with Beelzebub...so sorry! The humble pie of being incorrect before more than just a few UB readers who would have immediately straightened me out has got to be good medicine for the ole' ego. (the ego is my definition of 'the devil' you know!);-)


Go Thee and REad no more:)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

06/09/00 at 10:04 am 

Caligastia:

Incidentally, I'm not certain that Abbadon means 'destroyer' and I am certain that Beez and Meta have gotten some seriously bad raps at universal hands. Knowing them as I do, they are extremely Christian in thought, word and deed and dedicated to the Son's service. A few years back I said, 'hot damn' in front of Beez and I thought he was going to have a heartattack.

As to the rest of your post here,

Too bad that all of your wishful thinking doesn't constitute one reality.
Also, those that you are most interested in are 'the dead' - those poorly judged and set for execution (if this were a universal scenario). Your wish to make things easier would serve only to destroy them. This IS the bunch who usually took the easy way.


Cal

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

06/09/00 at 9:33 pm 

Steffani Murray:

Cal (06/09/00 at 9:55 am) wrote:
);-)
>>Go Thee and REad no more:

Dream On...
Reading more carefully might be in order...

Steffani }:->
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

06/09/00 at 10:39 pm 

Steffani Murray:

Cal (06/09/00 at 10:04 am) wrote:

>>
>>Incidentally, I'm not certain that Abbadon means 'destroyer' and I am certain that Beez and Meta have gotten some seriously bad raps at universal hands. Knowing them as I do, they are extremely Christian in thought, word and deed and dedicated to the Son's service. A few years back I said, 'hot damn' in front of Beez and I thought he was going to have a heartattack.

>>+++ Well...if 'destroying'(undoing)the materialistic culture of the 'world' brings about the spiritual Kingdom where Father's Will is
done on Urth as it is in Heaven this would not be a destructive action.
Beings dedicated the Son's service in thought, word and deed manifest
love and compassion which is a far cry from the manner in which the
"extremely Christian" may be observed to behave.
...the Inquisition is a good case in point.
I suppose one would have to presume that Father ensures His Love prevails
in Heaven and that only His Will is done in Reality to seriously entertain
that thought however.
That honey tasting roll that was bitter in John's belly apparently wasn't
x-stasy. His description of Jerusem and the 24 counselors wouldn't have
made it even a 2 star planet to visit what with personalities beseeching
'God' for vengeance and all that makes it sound like one of the 'special
peoples' feedback loops in 'hell'. The guy should have fired his chemist!
His concept of an end of time celebration party is too much like a Frederico Fellini movie with all those decked out whores and horny beasts
and disgusting items on the barbeque menu. Actually Christ Micheal and Nebadonia can easily plan a better and far more glorious bash than this
to inaugurate Light and Life around here... and will because enough of the
King's Kids continue to choose Love every day. 'God' really does have adequate alternative possible contingency plans in infinite variation.
The entire scenario can change as quickly as a mind relinquishes the thought of vengeance as acceptable.

>>As to the rest of your post here,
>>
>>Too bad that all of your wishful thinking doesn't constitute one reality.
>>Also, those that you are most interested in are 'the dead' - those poorly judged and set for execution (if this were a universal scenario). Your wish to make things easier would serve only to destroy them. This IS the bunch who usually took the easy way.
>>
>>+++ Taking "the dead" out of their bodies changes nothing if the mind
did not choose to live...torment convinces no one that life can be good
although enough pain can induce a decision to change its cause.
...but how can what is already dead be destroyed?...this makes no sense.

Choosing Only Love Again and Again.

Steffani.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

06/10/00 at 2:02 pm 

Caligastia:

>>>>+++ Well...if 'destroying'(undoing)the materialistic culture of the 'world' brings about the spiritual Kingdom where Father's Will is
>>done on Urth as it is in Heaven this would not be a destructive action.
>>Beings dedicated the Son's service in thought, word and deed manifest
>>love and compassion which is a far cry from the manner in which the
>>"extremely Christian" may be observed to behave.
>>...the Inquisition is a good case in point.

>>I suppose one would have to presume that Father ensures His Love prevails
>>in Heaven and that only His Will is done in Reality to seriously entertain
>>that thought however.

Steffani:

There is always one overriding flaw in your thoughts in these subjects.
You always assume that your wish list is running in sync with Father's.
This is preschool. The greatest expectation is that you achieve ascendancy and pass judgement. If you do better fine. However, wrapping this simple thought in all of the 'holy' and 'elevated' words causes some to lose focus. For others the preaching aspect would be a turn off. Is there anything in your verses that can't be found on TBN with those in the religion business screaming 'Thank You Jeeeeeessssssuuuuuuuus' every other word?

I don't wish to sound condescending here but do you really think, that at this level, you can truly have an appreciation for the words you use so casually?

If the words alone could have done it - they would have many centuries ago.
Would it not be better to 'be' and show by example? If we are not the 'AM'
of the proposition then the words are little more than hypocrisy and our assumptions at teaching little more than arrogance.

You assumption that Father gives a rat's backside about the materialistic nature of Earth isn't valid. The universe isn't. As Cal, I own my ship and the clothes on my back. The ship is only in the equation because it is a needed aspect of the mission. During the awakening, my possessions have been reduced to bare essentials.

So, if Father does this, or Abaddon does that - these things lack signficance in any degree.

>>That honey tasting roll that was bitter in John's belly apparently wasn't
>>x-stasy. His description of Jerusem and the 24 counselors wouldn't have
>>made it even a 2 star planet to visit what with personalities beseeching
>>'God' for vengeance and all that makes it sound like one of the 'special
>>peoples' feedback loops in 'hell'. The guy should have fired his chemist!

Personally, I've always liked Jerusem. It is a beautiful place. This will not be so after the rebellion gets done with it. It is also a reason why the seat of government is being moved to Havona.

>>His concept of an end of time celebration party is too much like a Frederico Fellini movie with all those decked out whores and horny beasts
>>and disgusting items on the barbeque menu. Actually Christ Micheal and Nebadonia can easily plan a better and far more glorious bash than this
>>to inaugurate Light and Life around here...

Again, the light and life. Do you really believe you can have a true understanding of these words? You know, people accuse me of arrogance and on some issues it is true. I'm good at what I do and I know it. Yet, where does personal humility factor into the equation (or how can it) when one assumes to understand? Does prosteltyzing constitute understanding? Or perhaps repeating words by rote - does this elevate in individual to understanding?

Humility involves the recognition and acceptance of our limitations and not moving beyond them unless and until we have earned the right to do so.


and will because enough of the
>>King's Kids continue to choose Love every day. 'God' really does have adequate alternative possible contingency plans in infinite variation.

No, He doesn't. He has one plan and we're living it now.

>>The entire scenario can change as quickly as a mind relinquishes the thought of vengeance as acceptable.
>>
>>

Here you assume to know the degree and causal agents involved in the minds of the rebellion princes. Can you, as a mortal, presume to know the mind of an angel who has hundreds of thousands of years of life experience you don't? Can you understand the insults to their integrity that drove them past the moment of desparation which led them to where they are now?
If not, I'd submit that an understanding of the extreme rage they feel is beyond your comprehension.

Again, humility is......


>>>>As to the rest of your post here,
>>>>
>>>>Too bad that all of your wishful thinking doesn't constitute one reality.
>>>>Also, those that you are most interested in are 'the dead' - those poorly judged and set for execution (if this were a universal scenario). Your wish to make things easier would serve only to destroy them. This IS the bunch who usually took the easy way.
>>>>
>>>>+++ Taking "the dead" out of their bodies changes nothing if the mind
>>did not choose to live...torment convinces no one that life can be good
>>although enough pain can induce a decision to change its cause.
>>...but how can what is already dead be destroyed?...this makes no sense.
>>


More assumptions.
1. Taking the dead out of their bodies? Didn't the UB tell you about soul death. Permanent death?
2. You assume to be possessed of sufficent moment to dictate policy. Are you competent?
3. What makes you think that the purpose of life is to convince you that it is 'good'? The purpose is to learn and grow.

When is mankind at his best?

When things are the worst.

In the post rapture era, they will be allowed a second chance, trial by fire. If you'd rather they not have this opportunity, protocol demands they be executed (soul death) upon completion of rapture. Would you care to be the one who services the moment? Or would you trust that Father and his agents know what they're doing?

If you have any doubt as to the effectiveness of the technique, I'd suggest you read the accounts of those who have received the Medal of Honor for their endeavors under the worst of circumstances. Their behaviors in the face of death is, at the very least, inspiring.


I'd submit that acceptance of Father's will involves a certain amount of faith. There has been more than one occasion that I've disagreed with Him.
Sometimes vehemently. Yet, I've always recognized that He is what He is and I am what I am. Of the two, He is the greater. As such, I've bent to His will even when I thought him wrong. To date, He never has been wrong.

Yet, even before you reach the moment of awarding Father your faith, there is a greater leap of faith to be faced. This one in yourself, that your logic and reason were, in fact, correct. This moment can be as wrenching as standing on the edge of the Grand Canyon pondering a leap to the other side, or as easy as walking through a door.

The solution to the delimna of self faith likewise can be most difficult or quite easy. Jackie had such a moment - a moment of epihany. I'm sure she'll share it with you when you arrive. One can surrender themselves to Father without losing themselves. In fact, the opposite arrives. Upon surrender, the individual finds themselves.

Referring back to my previous comment on light and life. Do you think that you, or anyone else, can appreciate the words until they've truly completed the surrender I've just discussed?

Such a moment is between the individual and Father. Beware the guru, priest or minister that says he can lead you to this moment. Only you can do it for you, and only with Father.

There is a big difference between saying 'Thy Will Be Done' and BEING it.
Without the later, the former is shallow and without meaning or significance.

Cal

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

06/10/00 at 11:15 pm 

Steffani Murray:

Cal (06/10/00 at 2:02 pm) wrote:

>>
>>>>>>+++ Well...if 'destroying'(undoing)the materialistic culture of the 'world' brings about the spiritual Kingdom where Father's Will is
>>>>done on Urth as it is in Heaven this would not be a destructive action.
>>>>Beings dedicated the Son's service in thought, word and deed manifest
>>>>love and compassion which is a far cry from the manner in which the
>>>>"extremely Christian" may be observed to behave.
>>>>...the Inquisition is a good case in point.
>>
>>>>I suppose one would have to presume that Father ensures His Love prevails
>>>>in Heaven and that only His Will is done in Reality to seriously entertain
>>>>that thought however.
>>
>>Steffani:
>>
>> There is always one overriding flaw in your thoughts in these subjects.
>>You always assume that your wish list is running in sync with Father's.
>>This is preschool. The greatest expectation is that you achieve ascendancy and pass judgement. If you do better fine. However, wrapping this simple thought in all of the 'holy' and 'elevated' words causes some to lose focus. For others the preaching aspect would be a turn off. Is there anything in your verses that can't be found on TBN with those in the religion business screaming 'Thank You Jeeeeeessssssuuuuuuuus' every other word?
>>******* The very first time I ever saw the TBN logo come on the TV (this one rarely watches it) I dared hope for just a second that we might actually be back in communication. The implications of that particular item on the wish list might be in sync yet Father's timeframe rather than my biodroid's is far better to ensure that nothing dear is lost to anyone...especially Father and Son...which would be impossible as Their Will is done. Being about His business and thankful to Jesus does seem appropriate. I wonder when it was that preaching became 'a turn off' to so many people and why. There is something very different in my verses from those of 'Christian' televangelists. If Jesus blood were required to appease a 'wrathful' Father the universe would be hell and there would be
no hope is 'gospel' truth to me. Atonement is at-One-ment no less.

>>I don't wish to sound condescending here but do you really think, that at this level, you can truly have an appreciation for the words you use so casually?
>>
>>If the words alone could have done it - they would have many centuries ago.
******* I really do appreciate that thoughts and words are causal...
neither I nor anyone at 'this level' really thinks at all.

>>Would it not be better to 'be' and show by example? If we are not the 'AM'
>>of the proposition then the words are little more than hypocrisy and our assumptions at teaching little more than arrogance.

******* Yes it is essential to Be I AM for the words and teaching to be
meaningful and true...that which comes from ego is hypocritical
and arrogant.
>>
>>You assumption that Father gives a rat's backside about the materialistic nature of Earth isn't valid. The universe isn't. As Cal, I own my ship and the clothes on my back. The ship is only in the equation because it is a needed aspect of the mission. During the awakening, my possessions have been reduced to bare essentials.

>>******* It is true that Father cares for you and the other personalities
involved and 'things' are meaningless to Him. It is not He Who
would ever question your integrity...all that is needed will be
given to you.

>>So, if Father does this, or Abaddon does that - these things lack signficance in any degree.

>>******* Whatever Father Does is totally significant. Whatever
anyone 'else' may do is significant only to the degree that
it manifests the doing (or Being) of His Will.

>>>>That honey tasting roll that was bitter in John's belly apparently wasn't
>>>>x-stasy. His description of Jerusem and the 24 counselors wouldn't have
>>>>made it even a 2 star planet to visit what with personalities beseeching
>>>>'God' for vengeance and all that makes it sound like one of the 'special
>>>>peoples' feedback loops in 'hell'. The guy should have fired his chemist!
>>
>>Personally, I've always liked Jerusem. It is a beautiful place. This will not be so after the rebellion gets done with it. It is also a reason why the seat of government is being moved to Havona.

>>******* Paradise is always in the center of that etenal Creation...
and yes this central shining is ever 'seen' in my Mind
this IS very Real to Me...
I may know nothing but this One thing.

>>>>His concept of an end of time celebration party is too much like a Frederico Fellini movie with all those decked out whores and horny beasts
>>>>and disgusting items on the barbeque menu. Actually Christ Micheal and Nebadonia can easily plan a better and far more glorious bash than this
>>>>to inaugurate Light and Life around here...

>*******Operative word is can do if They want to...Always in Father's Will.

>>Again, the light and life. Do you really believe you can have a true understanding of these words? You know, people accuse me of arrogance and on some issues it is true. I'm good at what I do and I know it. Yet, where does personal humility factor into the equation (or how can it) when one assumes to understand? Does prosteltyzing constitute understanding? Or perhaps repeating words by rote - does this elevate in individual to understanding?

>>******* It is not arrogant to acknowlege that you are who you are or
good at what you do. Personal humility is the factor that accepts
the assignments and responsibilities Father gives one without
doubting that He will provide all the strength, wisdom, and power
to sucessfully fulfill them. I understand this much and trust
that you do also. All of us coming to a complete understanding
of Light and Life together is not a hope that I will relinquish.

>>Humility involves the recognition and acceptance of our limitations and not moving beyond them unless and until we have earned the right to do so.

>>******* Accept the limitations others would place upon one and you
certainly have earned them by allowing their imposition.
Father imposes none that are other than issues of maturity
and experience. Attempts to circumvent on that basis are futile.
>>
>> and will because enough of the
>>>>King's Kids continue to choose Love every day. 'God' really does have adequate alternative possible contingency plans in infinite variation.
>>
>>No, He doesn't. He has one plan and we're living it now.
>>******* OK but not everyone has consciously realized yet that His one
plan is the purposeful reason they are living now.

>>>>The entire scenario can change as quickly as a mind relinquishes the thought of vengeance as acceptable.
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>>Here you assume to know the degree and causal agents involved in the minds of the rebellion princes. Can you, as a mortal, presume to know the mind of an angel who has hundreds of thousands of years of life experience you don't? Can you understand the insults to their integrity that drove them past the moment of desparation which led them to where they are now?
>>If not, I'd submit that an understanding of the extreme rage they feel is beyond your comprehension.

>>******* As a mortal probably not...yet this is the state in which it is
perhaps easiest to comprehend extreme rage...a condition which
is not a safe one to experience even as an animal. Insults to
everyone's integrity are commonplace on this planet... mostly
because we have yet to acknowledge our one Father Who loves us
all and relate to one another respectfully on that basis.

>>Again, humility is......
>>******* a trait of Christ Michael...the 'highest' Being I know. He has
never 'talked down' to or tried to humiliate me even when I am
in the process of receiving well deserved 'discipline'. He gives
gracious respect even to a creature that has a lot to learn...
which is exactly why I love and honor Him so as my 'Teacher'.
Yes... and for All else He is also.
>>
>>>>>>As to the rest of your post here,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Too bad that all of your wishful thinking doesn't constitute one reality.
>>>>>>Also, those that you are most interested in are 'the dead' - those poorly judged and set for execution (if this were a universal scenario). Your wish to make things easier would serve only to destroy them. This IS the bunch who usually took the easy way.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>+++ Taking "the dead" out of their bodies changes nothing if the mind
>>>>did not choose to live...torment convinces no one that life can be good
>>>>although enough pain can induce a decision to change its cause.
>>>>...but how can what is already dead be destroyed?...this makes no sense.
>>>>
>>
>>
>>More assumptions.
>>1. Taking the dead out of their bodies? Didn't the UB tell you about soul death. Permanent death?
>>2. You assume to be possessed of sufficent moment to dictate policy. Are you competent?
>>3. What makes you think that the purpose of life is to convince you that it is 'good'? The purpose is to learn and grow.
>>
>>When is mankind at his best?
>>
>>When things are the worst.

>>******* I have not observed that this is so.

>>In the post rapture era, they will be allowed a second chance, trial by fire. If you'd rather they not have this opportunity, protocol demands they be executed (soul death) upon completion of rapture. Would you care to be the one who services the moment? Or would you trust that Father and his agents know what they're doing?

>>******* I have complete trust that Father and His agents know what they
are doing.

>>If you have any doubt as to the effectiveness of the technique, I'd suggest you read the accounts of those who have received the Medal of Honor for their endeavors under the worst of circumstances. Their behaviors in the face of death is, at the very least, inspiring.

>>******* Oxymoronic to have a war in order to demonstrate honorable
behavior... my vote goes to people like firefighters and
paramedics in 'peacetime'.( it's a 'jungle' out there too.)
>>
>>I'd submit that acceptance of Father's will involves a certain amount of faith. There has been more than one occasion that I've disagreed with Him.
>>Sometimes vehemently. Yet, I've always recognized that He is what He is and I am what I am. Of the two, He is the greater. As such, I've bent to His will even when I thought him wrong. To date, He never has been wrong.

>>******* Now that you've figured that out does it rule out all future
disagreement?

>>Yet, even before you reach the moment of awarding Father your faith, there is a greater leap of faith to be faced. This one in yourself, that your logic and reason were, in fact, correct. This moment can be as wrenching as standing on the edge of the Grand Canyon pondering a leap to the other side, or as easy as walking through a door.

>>******* Yes...

>>The solution to the delimna of self faith likewise can be most difficult or quite easy. Jackie had such a moment - a moment of epihany. I'm sure she'll share it with you when you arrive. One can surrender themselves to Father without losing themselves. In fact, the opposite arrives. Upon surrender, the individual finds themselves.

>>***** Yes...

>>Referring back to my previous comment on light and life. Do you think that you, or anyone else, can appreciate the words until they've truly completed the surrender I've just discussed?

>>******* It is not possible to appreciate light or even life until one
has truly completed the surrender you've just discussed.

>>Such a moment is between the individual and Father. Beware the guru, priest or minister that says he can lead you to this moment. Only you can do it for you, and only with Father.

>>******* Yes...

>>There is a big difference between saying 'Thy Will Be Done' and BEING it.
>>Without the later, the former is shallow and without meaning or significance.

>>******* Agree completely...

Steffani.(choosing only love)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

06/11/00 at 12:12 am 

Caligastia:

>>>>Steffani:
>>>>
>>>> There is always one overriding flaw in your thoughts in these subjects.
>>>>You always assume that your wish list is running in sync with Father's.
>>>>This is preschool. The greatest expectation is that you achieve ascendancy and pass judgement. If you do better fine. However, wrapping this simple thought in all of the 'holy' and 'elevated' words causes some to lose focus. For others the preaching aspect would be a turn off. Is there anything in your verses that can't be found on TBN with those in the religion business screaming 'Thank You Jeeeeeessssssuuuuuuuus' every other word?
>>>>******* The very first time I ever saw the TBN logo come on the TV (this one rarely watches it) I dared hope for just a second that we might actually be back in communication. The implications of that particular item on the wish list might be in sync yet Father's timeframe rather than my biodroid's is far better to ensure that nothing dear is lost to anyone...especially Father and Son...which would be impossible as Their Will is done. Being about His business and thankful to Jesus does seem appropriate. I wonder when it was that preaching became 'a turn off' to so many people and why.

Well, for myself, I can tell you that I didn't care of Jehovah's Witnesses assailing AND misquoting the Bible in the process. I don't care for the Tammy Fay types who make so much money pumping the word when God doesn't have to pay a power bill on the sun. I don't care for those who are in the religion 'business' when its Father's way to send his own forth naked amongst the people. I don't care for those who presume to know his word without benefit of talking with him first hand and so on and on and on.

There is something very different in my verses from those of 'Christian' televangelists. If Jesus blood were required to appease a 'wrathful' Father the universe would be hell and there would be
>>no hope is 'gospel' truth to me. Atonement is at-One-ment no less.
>>

Ok, the words are different. But is the presumption?

As to the point of a wrathful God, the theological types didn't get it.
Jesus showed a dimensional technique for his Apostles to connect with him.
Jews, at the time, practiced blood sacrifice. In his paradigm, there was no sacrifice. Instead, he attached to the current practice and said, 'substitute this for that'. It'll work just as well.

>>>>I don't wish to sound condescending here but do you really think, that at this level, you can truly have an appreciation for the words you use so casually?
>>>>
>>>>If the words alone could have done it - they would have many centuries ago.
>>******* I really do appreciate that thoughts and words are causal...
>> neither I nor anyone at 'this level' really thinks at all.
>>
>>>>Would it not be better to 'be' and show by example? If we are not the 'AM'
>>>>of the proposition then the words are little more than hypocrisy and our assumptions at teaching little more than arrogance.
>>
>>******* Yes it is essential to Be I AM for the words and teaching to be
>> meaningful and true...that which comes from ego is hypocritical
>> and arrogant.
>>>>

Again, we disagree. THE EGO IS THE I AM and without it we are nothing.
How will YOU know when you've reached the AM of your life. Will a ray of light come thru the ceiling or some other celestial moment? The truth is that the designation is awarded by a master to a student. It is not a self designation for all of us lack the moment (usually) to see ourselves clearly. When one who is your teacher says to you that you've achieved this , that or the other, THEN it is properly placed within the ego. Until that moment arrives, we accept that we are all students and presume not to cross inappropriate boundaries.

For example, I AM the planetary prince. I was not awarded the position due to any patronage or nepotism - I earned it. The position and title are properly assumed into the ego as a statement of fact and truth. That I don't go around shoving it down peoples throats speaks to the fact I have no weakness of ego that needs to draw attention or accolaides from others.
Nor do I have a wish to hold myself separate or apart.


>>>>You assumption that Father gives a rat's backside about the materialistic nature of Earth isn't valid. The universe isn't. As Cal, I own my ship and the clothes on my back. The ship is only in the equation because it is a needed aspect of the mission. During the awakening, my possessions have been reduced to bare essentials.
>>
>>>>******* It is true that Father cares for you and the other personalities
>> involved and 'things' are meaningless to Him. It is not He Who
>> would ever question your integrity...all that is needed will be
>> given to you.
>>

I know this and accept it. It is a part of my choice of 'faith'.


>>>>So, if Father does this, or Abaddon does that - these things lack signficance in any degree.
>>
>>>>******* Whatever Father Does is totally significant. Whatever
>> anyone 'else' may do is significant only to the degree that
>> it manifests the doing (or Being) of His Will.
>>

I'll agree with your point but you missed mine. The issue was your assumption that Father's cares about Earth's materialistic nature.


>>>>>>That honey tasting roll that was bitter in John's belly apparently wasn't
>>>>>>x-stasy. His description of Jerusem and the 24 counselors wouldn't have
>>>>>>made it even a 2 star planet to visit what with personalities beseeching
>>>>>>'God' for vengeance and all that makes it sound like one of the 'special
>>>>>>peoples' feedback loops in 'hell'. The guy should have fired his chemist!
>>>>
>>>>Personally, I've always liked Jerusem. It is a beautiful place. This will not be so after the rebellion gets done with it. It is also a reason why the seat of government is being moved to Havona.
>>
>>>>******* Paradise is always in the center of that etenal Creation...
>> and yes this central shining is ever 'seen' in my Mind
>> this IS very Real to Me...
>> I may know nothing but this One thing.
>>

REally? You've been there? You know from first hand experience? I don't think so.

Instead you read some words and assumed them to be true. Before a couple of years ago, Havona was little more than a point in space. Today its a city that prepares for the Son's return. How do I know, I've been there.

I harp over and over again on the issues of logic, reason and belief.

In truth, you've heard about a place called Havona and you know what an invisible voice and invisible face had to say about it. You have no evidence that the voice proffering the information had been there themselves and whether they spoke from first hand experience or hearsay.

Similar to, "I heard from a friend of a friend who was married to my third cousins brother in law". You have no factual chain of custody to validate the words and you have none of the authors available to query.

The bottom line is, that from any point of logic or reason - you can't possibly know or speak intellgently to the point. Here one assumes the validity of the sourcing, accepts the limititations that no proof will be offered and choses to believe based only some subjective analysis.


>>>>>>His concept of an end of time celebration party is too much like a Frederico Fellini movie with all those decked out whores and horny beasts
>>>>>>and disgusting items on the barbeque menu. Actually Christ Micheal and Nebadonia can easily plan a better and far more glorious bash than this
>>>>>>to inaugurate Light and Life around here...
>>
>>>*******Operative word is can do if They want to...Always in Father's Will.
>>
>>>>Again, the light and life. Do you really believe you can have a true understanding of these words? You know, people accuse me of arrogance and on some issues it is true. I'm good at what I do and I know it. Yet, where does personal humility factor into the equation (or how can it) when one assumes to understand? Does prosteltyzing constitute understanding? Or perhaps repeating words by rote - does this elevate in individual to understanding?
>>
>>>>******* It is not arrogant to acknowlege that you are who you are or
>> good at what you do. Personal humility is the factor that accepts
>> the assignments and responsibilities Father gives one without
>> doubting that He will provide all the strength, wisdom, and power
>> to sucessfully fulfill them. I understand this much and trust
>> that you do also. All of us coming to a complete understanding
>> of Light and Life together is not a hope that I will relinquish.
>>
I can accept 'a hope' and 'a goal'. You know, in person you speak like a real life living person. Someone easy to relate to. When you write though, you go through some metamorphasis. It is one thing to say, " I hope that one day I will evolve myself to the level I have a true understand of what love is and what it truly means to stand in the light".

It is a vastly different prospect to presume and assume to already know when the evidence is such that a knowing isn't currently possible. From your writings, I'm of the opinion that you 1. wish to be of service to Father and 2. would welcome the role of teacher. Both are admirable aspirations.

I have, however, told you (politely) that teachers are appointed by Father or Son and unless and until that moment arrives, the best one should aim for is an equally valuable goal - that of truthsayer. It falls to such the truthsayer to not only know the truth - be one with it - be also be able to deliver it in a way that is understandable to the average person.

Until you're willing to speak (and write) in the common language of the common man, to gain a true understanding of what goes on between their ears, your voice will not be heard no matter how many glowing celestial extracts are taken from the UB (or any other source). You might have noticed there aren't hoards of celestials running around here. You have no need to speak angelic double speak.


>>>>Humility involves the recognition and acceptance of our limitations and not moving beyond them unless and until we have earned the right to do so.
>>
>>>>******* Accept the limitations others would place upon one and you
>> certainly have earned them by allowing their imposition.

Recognition of the limitations of one's own ignorance is not an imposition by any other party.

>> Father imposes none that are other than issues of maturity
>> and experience. Attempts to circumvent on that basis are futile.

True, but how will YOU KNOW unless recognition of accomplishment comes from another source. You aren't competent to judge yourself. Few are.

>>>>
>>>> and will because enough of the
>>>>>>King's Kids continue to choose Love every day. 'God' really does have adequate alternative possible contingency plans in infinite variation.
>>>>
>>>>No, He doesn't. He has one plan and we're living it now.
>>>>******* OK but not everyone has consciously realized yet that His one
>> plan is the purposeful reason they are living now.
>>

Whether everyone recognizes it or not doesn't change the answer or the truth.


>>>>>>The entire scenario can change as quickly as a mind relinquishes the thought of vengeance as acceptable.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Here you assume to know the degree and causal agents involved in the minds of the rebellion princes. Can you, as a mortal, presume to know the mind of an angel who has hundreds of thousands of years of life experience you don't? Can you understand the insults to their integrity that drove them past the moment of desparation which led them to where they are now?
>>>>If not, I'd submit that an understanding of the extreme rage they feel is beyond your comprehension.
>>
>>>>******* As a mortal probably not...yet this is the state in which it is
>> perhaps easiest to comprehend extreme rage...a condition which
>> is not a safe one to experience even as an animal. Insults to
>> everyone's integrity are commonplace on this planet... mostly
>> because we have yet to acknowledge our one Father Who loves us
>> all and relate to one another respectfully on that basis.

Well, insults to a Lanonandek's integrity are not common place within the universe. If one wishes the short road to a lot of trouble, this is the way to go about it. I have the patience born of earth - they do not.
Further, it is inappropriate to assume that the rebellion princes are possessed of 'animal' rage. Father has already given voice to the fact that the causes of the rebellion were just. How do I know, I delivered the word to all the princes who would listen.

>>
>>>>Again, humility is......
>>>>******* a trait of Christ Michael...the 'highest' Being I know. He has
>> never 'talked down' to or tried to humiliate me even when I am
>> in the process of receiving well deserved 'discipline'. He gives
>> gracious respect even to a creature that has a lot to learn...
>> which is exactly why I love and honor Him so as my 'Teacher'.
>> Yes... and for All else He is also.
>>>>

Do you feel that I am talking down to you?

I don't - I feel I approach you as an equal - mortal to mortal.

I will admit that I lean a littler harder on you than I do others. There is a good purpose and a reason for this but I'll not discuss it until we're all together. I'd add that of the group coming - you are also the most stubborn:)

>>>>>>>>As to the rest of your post here,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Too bad that all of your wishful thinking doesn't constitute one reality.
>>>>>>>>Also, those that you are most interested in are 'the dead' - those poorly judged and set for execution (if this were a universal scenario). Your wish to make things easier would serve only to destroy them. This IS the bunch who usually took the easy way.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>+++ Taking "the dead" out of their bodies changes nothing if the mind
>>>>>>did not choose to live...torment convinces no one that life can be good
>>>>>>although enough pain can induce a decision to change its cause.
>>>>>>...but how can what is already dead be destroyed?...this makes no sense.
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>More assumptions.
>>>>1. Taking the dead out of their bodies? Didn't the UB tell you about soul death. Permanent death?
>>>>2. You assume to be possessed of sufficent moment to dictate policy. Are you competent?
>>>>3. What makes you think that the purpose of life is to convince you that it is 'good'? The purpose is to learn and grow.
>>>>
>>>>When is mankind at his best?
>>>>
>>>>When things are the worst.
>>
>>>>******* I have not observed that this is so.
>>
>>>>In the post rapture era, they will be allowed a second chance, trial by fire. If you'd rather they not have this opportunity, protocol demands they be executed (soul death) upon completion of rapture. Would you care to be the one who services the moment? Or would you trust that Father and his agents know what they're doing?
>>
>>>>******* I have complete trust that Father and His agents know what they
>> are doing.
>>

Thank You


>>>>If you have any doubt as to the effectiveness of the technique, I'd suggest you read the accounts of those who have received the Medal of Honor for their endeavors under the worst of circumstances. Their behaviors in the face of death is, at the very least, inspiring.
>>
>>>>******* Oxymoronic to have a war in order to demonstrate honorable
>> behavior... my vote goes to people like firefighters and
>> paramedics in 'peacetime'.( it's a 'jungle' out there too.)
>>>>

No greater gift has man that he lay down his life for his fellow man.
War is a perfect proving ground to the point. The medal of honor is usually awarded to those who, in the moment of crisis, elevated themselves to an understanding of these words.

Father has structured a war in heaven. You don't have to like it. I for one do not look forward to the title of planetary butcher from earth. It is not my nature to wish to injure others. But that is precisely what I'm going to do and I've become extremely competent during my sojourn on Earth.
Like it or not, war does resolve disputes.

>>>>I'd submit that acceptance of Father's will involves a certain amount of faith. There has been more than one occasion that I've disagreed with Him.
>>>>Sometimes vehemently. Yet, I've always recognized that He is what He is and I am what I am. Of the two, He is the greater. As such, I've bent to His will even when I thought him wrong. To date, He never has been wrong.
>>
>>>>******* Now that you've figured that out does it rule out all future
>> disagreement?
>>
Nope! Although I do have to admit it is difficult to argue with Him:)


>>>>Yet, even before you reach the moment of awarding Father your faith, there is a greater leap of faith to be faced. This one in yourself, that your logic and reason were, in fact, correct. This moment can be as wrenching as standing on the edge of the Grand Canyon pondering a leap to the other side, or as easy as walking through a door.
>>
>>>>******* Yes...
>>
>>>>The solution to the delimna of self faith likewise can be most difficult or quite easy. Jackie had such a moment - a moment of epihany. I'm sure she'll share it with you when you arrive. One can surrender themselves to Father without losing themselves. In fact, the opposite arrives. Upon surrender, the individual finds themselves.
>>
>>>>***** Yes...
>>
>>>>Referring back to my previous comment on light and life. Do you think that you, or anyone else, can appreciate the words until they've truly completed the surrender I've just discussed?
>>
>>>>******* It is not possible to appreciate light or even life until one
>> has truly completed the surrender you've just discussed.
>>
I'll take that as a no.

>>>>Such a moment is between the individual and Father. Beware the guru, priest or minister that says he can lead you to this moment. Only you can do it for you, and only with Father.
>>
>>>>******* Yes...
>>
>>>>There is a big difference between saying 'Thy Will Be Done' and BEING it.
>>>>Without the later, the former is shallow and without meaning or significance.
>>
>>>>******* Agree completely...
>>
>>Steffani.(choosing only love)
>>
I don't know, do I need to pack a couple of sets of boxing gloves?
I'm not sure I want to go bare knuckles with you - I might get hurt:)

Cal

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

06/12/00 at 12:54 am 

Steffani Murray:

Cal (06/11/00 at 12:12 am) wrote:

>>
>>>>>>Steffani: This is getting too long but I can't resist...
Must be I'm getting tempted by another angle!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There is always one overriding flaw in your thoughts in these subjects.
>>>>>>You always assume that your wish list is running in sync with Father's.
>>>>>>This is preschool. The greatest expectation is that you achieve ascendancy and pass judgement. If you do better fine. However, wrapping this simple thought in all of the 'holy' and 'elevated' words causes some to lose focus. For others the preaching aspect would be a turn off. Is there anything in your verses that can't be found on TBN with those in the religion business screaming 'Thank You Jeeeeeessssssuuuuuuuus' every other word?
>>>>>>******* The very first time I ever saw the TBN logo come on the TV (this one rarely watches it) I dared hope for just a second that we might actually be back in communication. The implications of that particular item on the wish list might be in sync yet Father's timeframe rather than my biodroid's is far better to ensure that nothing dear is lost to anyone...especially Father and Son...which would be impossible as Their Will is done. Being about His business and thankful to Jesus does seem appropriate. I wonder when it was that preaching became 'a turn off' to so many people and why.
>>
>>Well, for myself, I can tell you that I didn't care of Jehovah's Witnesses assailing AND misquoting the Bible in the process. I don't care for the Tammy Fay types who make so much money pumping the word when God doesn't have to pay a power bill on the sun. I don't care for those who are in the religion 'business' when its Father's way to send his own forth naked amongst the people. I don't care for those who presume to know his word without benefit of talking with him first hand and so on and on and on.
>>
>>^^^^^^^ So many things to be upset over...so little time!
>>
>> There is something very different in my verses from those of 'Christian' televangelists. If Jesus blood were required to appease a 'wrathful' Father the universe would be hell and there would be
>>>>no hope is 'gospel' truth to me. Atonement is at-One-ment no less.
>>>>
>>
>>Ok, the words are different. But is the presumption?
>>^^^^^^^ Absolutely!

>>As to the point of a wrathful God, the theological types didn't get it.
>>Jesus showed a dimensional technique for his Apostles to connect with him.
>>Jews, at the time, practiced blood sacrifice. In his paradigm, there was no sacrifice. Instead, he attached to the current practice and said, 'substitute this for that'. It'll work just as well.

>>^^^^^^^ Well, you got that one right...In His paradigm there is no
sacrifice.
>>
>>
>>>>>>I don't wish to sound condescending here but do you really think, that at this level, you can truly have an appreciation for the words you use so casually?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>If the words alone could have done it - they would have many centuries ago.
>>>>******* I really do appreciate that thoughts and words are causal...
>>>> neither I nor anyone at 'this level' really thinks at all.
>>>>
>>>>>>Would it not be better to 'be' and show by example? If we are not the 'AM'
>>>>>>of the proposition then the words are little more than hypocrisy and our assumptions at teaching little more than arrogance.
>>>>
>>>>******* Yes it is essential to Be I AM for the words and teaching to be
>>>> meaningful and true...that which comes from ego is hypocritical
>>>> and arrogant.
>>>>>>
>>
>>Again, we disagree. THE EGO IS THE I AM and without it we are nothing.
>>How will YOU know when you've reached the AM of your life. Will a ray of light come thru the ceiling or some other celestial moment? The truth is that the designation is awarded by a master to a student. It is not a self designation for all of us lack the moment (usually) to see ourselves clearly. When one who is your teacher says to you that you've achieved this , that or the other, THEN it is properly placed within the ego. Until that moment arrives, we accept that we are all students and presume not to cross inappropriate boundaries.

>>^^^^^^^ My Teacher tells me the best way to learn something is by His
asking me to teach it. Also that a ray of Light in a celestial
moment undoes the belief in the false self (ego) forever.


>>For example, I AM the planetary prince. I was not awarded the position due to any patronage or nepotism - I earned it. The position and title are properly assumed into the ego as a statement of fact and truth. That I don't go around shoving it down peoples throats speaks to the fact I have no weakness of ego that needs to draw attention or accolaides from others.
>>Nor do I have a wish to hold myself separate or apart.

>>^^^^^^^gee...I was under the impression this is a job description with
the fascinating duties of guiding an evolutionary world and it's
people towards light and life. It would seem appropriate to
maintain a significant degree of personal involvement in the
project. I would hope someone in that position would give it his
very best efforts.


>>
>>>>>>You assumption that Father gives a rat's backside about the materialistic nature of Earth isn't valid. The universe isn't. As Cal, I own my ship and the clothes on my back. The ship is only in the equation because it is a needed aspect of the mission. During the awakening, my possessions have been reduced to bare essentials.
>>>>
>>>>>>******* It is true that Father cares for you and the other personalities
>>>> involved and 'things' are meaningless to Him. It is not He Who
>>>> would ever question your integrity...all that is needed will be
>>>> given to you.
>>>>
>>
>>I know this and accept it. It is a part of my choice of 'faith'.
>>
>>
>>>>>>So, if Father does this, or Abaddon does that - these things lack signficance in any degree.
>>>>
>>>>>>******* Whatever Father Does is totally significant. Whatever
>>>> anyone 'else' may do is significant only to the degree that
>>>> it manifests the doing (or Being) of His Will.
>>>>
>>
>>I'll agree with your point but you missed mine. The issue was your assumption that Father's cares about Earth's materialistic nature.

>>^^^^^^^ I stated to the point Father cares only for personalities not
things... Earth's materialistic culture is a local
governmental concern more for Michael at this time I would
imagine...or possibly you.

>>
>>>>>>>>That honey tasting roll that was bitter in John's belly apparently wasn't
>>>>>>>>x-stasy. His description of Jerusem and the 24 counselors wouldn't have
>>>>>>>>made it even a 2 star planet to visit what with personalities beseeching
>>>>>>>>'God' for vengeance and all that makes it sound like one of the 'special
>>>>>>>>peoples' feedback loops in 'hell'. The guy should have fired his chemist!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Personally, I've always liked Jerusem. It is a beautiful place. This will not be so after the rebellion gets done with it. It is also a reason why the seat of government is being moved to Havona.
>>>>
>>>>>>******* Paradise is always in the center of that eternal Creation...
>>>> and yes this central shining is ever 'seen' in my Mind
>>>> this IS very Real to Me...
>>>> I may know nothing but this One thing.
>>>>
>>
>>REally? You've been there? You know from first hand experience? I don't think so.

>>^^^^^^^There may be a few things that you do not know...one is that when
I made the above statement...no matter how outrageous it might
sound to you it is said with all the sincerity of my being...
I do not understand it nor can I explain it yet it is so...
if you had me 'eyeball to eyeball' you would not have made your
remark above. It is one of those things I was really hoping you
could help me to understand...


>>Instead you read some words and assumed them to be true. Before a couple of years ago, Havona was little more than a point in space. Today its a city that prepares for the Son's return. How do I know, I've been there.
>>
>>I harp over and over again on the issues of logic, reason and belief.
>>
>>In truth, you've heard about a place called Havona and you know what an invisible voice and invisible face had to say about it. You have no evidence that the voice proffering the information had been there themselves and whether they spoke from first hand experience or hearsay.
>>
>>Similar to, "I heard from a friend of a friend who was married to my third cousins brother in law". You have no factual chain of custody to validate the words and you have none of the authors available to query.
>>
>>The bottom line is, that from any point of logic or reason - you can't possibly know or speak intellgently to the point. Here one assumes the validity of the sourcing, accepts the limititations that no proof will be offered and choses to believe based only some subjective analysis.

>>^^^^^^^ about this you could not be more wrong...this event happened
long before I found the UB...all it gave me is a frame of
reference and a hope that I might try one day to find words to
speak of space where none were needed nor possible for meaning.
>>
>>>>>>>>His concept of an end of time celebration party is too much like a Frederico Fellini movie with all those decked out whores and horny beasts
>>>>>>>>and disgusting items on the barbeque menu. Actually Christ Micheal and Nebadonia can easily plan a better and far more glorious bash than this
>>>>>>>>to inaugurate Light and Life around here...
>>>>
>>>>>*******Operative word is can do if They want to...Always in Father's Will.
>>>>
>>>>>>Again, the light and life. Do you really believe you can have a true understanding of these words? You know, people accuse me of arrogance and on some issues it is true. I'm good at what I do and I know it. Yet, where does personal humility factor into the equation (or how can it) when one assumes to understand? Does prosteltyzing constitute understanding? Or perhaps repeating words by rote - does this elevate in individual to understanding?
>>>>
>>>>>>******* It is not arrogant to acknowlege that you are who you are or
>>>> good at what you do. Personal humility is the factor that accepts
>>>> the assignments and responsibilities Father gives one without
>>>> doubting that He will provide all the strength, wisdom, and power
>>>> to sucessfully fulfill them. I understand this much and trust
>>>> that you do also. All of us coming to a complete understanding
>>>> of Light and Life together is not a hope that I will relinquish.
>>>>
>> I can accept 'a hope' and 'a goal'. You know, in person you speak like a real life living person. Someone easy to relate to. When you write though, you go through some metamorphasis. It is one thing to say, " I hope that one day I will evolve myself to the level I have a true understand of what love is and what it truly means to stand in the light".

>>^^^^^^^ in another moment you may try the integrity of my inner being.

>>It is a vastly different prospect to presume and assume to already know when the evidence is such that a knowing isn't currently possible. From your writings, I'm of the opinion that you 1. wish to be of service to Father and 2. would welcome the role of teacher. Both are admirable aspirations.

>>^^^^^^^ I do the best I can with the assignments given.

>>I have, however, told you (politely) that teachers are appointed by Father or Son and unless and until that moment arrives, the best one should aim for is an equally valuable goal - that of truthsayer. It falls to such the truthsayer to not only know the truth - be one with it - be also be able to deliver it in a way that is understandable to the average person.

>>^^^^^^^ I am able to share my truth with almost anyone in a way they
can understand. The mystery of my being is another issue.

>>Until you're willing to speak (and write) in the common language of the common man, to gain a true understanding of what goes on between their ears, your voice will not be heard no matter how many glowing celestial extracts are taken from the UB (or any other source). You might have noticed there aren't hoards of celestials running around here. You have no need to speak angelic double speak.

>>^^^^^^^Many do hear what I say and understand it easily and express
appreciation for my efforts to communicate. Nor have I noticed
any shortage of celestial beings around here who are willing to
communicate with us.
>>
>>>>>>Humility involves the recognition and acceptance of our limitations and not moving beyond them unless and until we have earned the right to do so.
>>>>
>>>>>>******* Accept the limitations others would place upon one and you
>>>> certainly have earned them by allowing their imposition.
>>
>>Recognition of the limitations of one's own ignorance is not an imposition by any other party.
>>
>>>> Father imposes none that are other than issues of maturity
>>>> and experience. Attempts to circumvent on that basis are futile.
>>
>>True, but how will YOU KNOW unless recognition of accomplishment comes from another source. You aren't competent to judge yourself. Few are.
>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> and will because enough of the
>>>>>>>>King's Kids continue to choose Love every day. 'God' really does have adequate alternative possible contingency plans in infinite variation.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>No, He doesn't. He has one plan and we're living it now.
>>>>>>******* OK but not everyone has consciously realized yet that His one
>>>> plan is the purposeful reason they are living now.
>>>>
>>
>>Whether everyone recognizes it or not doesn't change the answer or the truth.
>>^^^^^^^ Very true.
>>
>>>>>>>>The entire scenario can change as quickly as a mind relinquishes the thought of vengeance as acceptable.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Here you assume to know the degree and causal agents involved in the minds of the rebellion princes. Can you, as a mortal, presume to know the mind of an angel who has hundreds of thousands of years of life experience you don't? Can you understand the insults to their integrity that drove them past the moment of desparation which led them to where they are now?
>>>>>>If not, I'd submit that an understanding of the extreme rage they feel is beyond your comprehension.
>>>>
>>>>>>******* As a mortal probably not...yet this is the state in which it is
>>>> perhaps easiest to comprehend extreme rage...a condition which
>>>> is not a safe one to experience even as an animal. Insults to
>>>> everyone's integrity are commonplace on this planet... mostly
>>>> because we have yet to acknowledge our one Father Who loves us
>>>> all and relate to one another respectfully on that basis.
>>
>>Well, insults to a Lanonandek's integrity are not common place within the universe. If one wishes the short road to a lot of trouble, this is the way to go about it. I have the patience born of earth - they do not.
>>Further, it is inappropriate to assume that the rebellion princes are possessed of 'animal' rage. Father has already given voice to the fact that the causes of the rebellion were just. How do I know, I delivered the word to all the princes who would listen.

>>^^^^^^^My statement was only intended to refer to earth and mortal
humans.
>>>>
>>>>>>Again, humility is......
>>>>>>******* a trait of Christ Michael...the 'highest' Being I know. He has
>>>> never 'talked down' to or tried to humiliate me even when I am
>>>> in the process of receiving well deserved 'discipline'. He gives
>>>> gracious respect even to a creature that has a lot to learn...
>>>> which is exactly why I love and honor Him so as my 'Teacher'.
>>>> Yes... and for All else He is also.
>>>>>>
>>
>>Do you feel that I am talking down to you?

>>^^^^^^^ Yes...sometimes it does feel that way when you attempt to deny
or invalidate truth based in personal experience that I share
from my heart...

>>I don't - I feel I approach you as an equal - mortal to mortal.

>>^^^^^^^Perhaps this is the problem...I usually relate to the spirit of
another person from my spirit.

>>I will admit that I lean a littler harder on you than I do others. There is a good purpose and a reason for this but I'll not discuss it until we're all together. I'd add that of the group coming - you are also the most stubborn:)

>>^^^^^^^Well, I remember giving you permission to do this.
I may be tough but this is getting too difficult...I may be more
sensitive than you might think so I quit until we are one on one
and can read energy along with the words.
My head is much harder than my heart...which you already realize.
>>
>>
>>>>>>>>>>As to the rest of your post here,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Too bad that all of your wishful thinking doesn't constitute one reality.
>>>>>>>>>>Also, those that you are most interested in are 'the dead' - those poorly judged and set for execution (if this were a universal scenario). Your wish to make things easier would serve only to destroy them. This IS the bunch who usually took the easy way.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>+++ Taking "the dead" out of their bodies changes nothing if the mind
>>>>>>>>did not choose to live...torment convinces no one that life can be good
>>>>>>>>although enough pain can induce a decision to change its cause.
>>>>>>>>...but how can what is already dead be destroyed?...this makes no sense.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>More assumptions.
>>>>>>1. Taking the dead out of their bodies? Didn't the UB tell you about soul death. Permanent death?
>>>>>>2. You assume to be possessed of sufficent moment to dictate policy. Are you competent?
>>>>>>3. What makes you think that the purpose of life is to convince you that it is 'good'? The purpose is to learn and grow.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>When is mankind at his best?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>When things are the worst.
>>>>
>>>>>>******* I have not observed that this is so.
>>>>
>>>>>>In the post rapture era, they will be allowed a second chance, trial by fire. If you'd rather they not have this opportunity, protocol demands they be executed (soul death) upon completion of rapture. Would you care to be the one who services the moment? Or would you trust that Father and his agents know what they're doing?
>>>>
>>>>>>******* I have complete trust that Father and His agents know what they
>>>> are doing.
>>>>
>>
>>Thank You
>>
>>
>>>>>>If you have any doubt as to the effectiveness of the technique, I'd suggest you read the accounts of those who have received the Medal of Honor for their endeavors under the worst of circumstances. Their behaviors in the face of death is, at the very least, inspiring.
>>>>
>>>>>>******* Oxymoronic to have a war in order to demonstrate honorable
>>>> behavior... my vote goes to people like firefighters and
>>>> paramedics in 'peacetime'.( it's a 'jungle' out there too.)
>>>>>>
>>
>>No greater gift has man that he lay down his life for his fellow man.
>>War is a perfect proving ground to the point. The medal of honor is usually awarded to those who, in the moment of crisis, elevated themselves to an understanding of these words.
>>
>>Father has structured a war in heaven. You don't have to like it. I for one do not look forward to the title of planetary butcher from earth. It is not my nature to wish to injure others. But that is precisely what I'm going to do and I've become extremely competent during my sojourn on Earth.
>>Like it or not, war does resolve disputes.

>>^^^^^^^ IF it wasn't Father's will but your own would you reconsider
an alternative?

>>>>>>I'd submit that acceptance of Father's will involves a certain amount of faith. There has been more than one occasion that I've disagreed with Him.
>>>>>>Sometimes vehemently. Yet, I've always recognized that He is what He is and I am what I am. Of the two, He is the greater. As such, I've bent to His will even when I thought him wrong. To date, He never has been wrong.
>>>>
>>>>>>******* Now that you've figured that out does it rule out all future
>>>> disagreement?
>>>>
>>Nope! Although I do have to admit it is difficult to argue with Him:)

>>^^^^^^^This is said by the same person who is extolling the virtue of
surrender 2 comments south of this one?
>>
>>>>>>Yet, even before you reach the moment of awarding Father your faith, there is a greater leap of faith to be faced. This one in yourself, that your logic and reason were, in fact, correct. This moment can be as wrenching as standing on the edge of the Grand Canyon pondering a leap to the other side, or as easy as walking through a door.
>>>>
>>>>>>******* Yes...
>>>>
>>>>>>The solution to the delimna of self faith likewise can be most difficult or quite easy. Jackie had such a moment - a moment of epihany. I'm sure she'll share it with you when you arrive. One can surrender themselves to Father without losing themselves. In fact, the opposite arrives. Upon surrender, the individual finds themselves.
>>>>
>>>>>>***** Yes...
>>>>
>>>>>>Referring back to my previous comment on light and life. Do you think that you, or anyone else, can appreciate the words until they've truly completed the surrender I've just discussed?
>>>>
>>>>>>******* It is not possible to appreciate light or even life until one
>>>> has truly completed the surrender you've just discussed.
>>>>
>>I'll take that as a no.

>>^^^^^^^That was a yes and agreement actually...

>>>>>>Such a moment is between the individual and Father. Beware the guru, priest or minister that says he can lead you to this moment. Only you can do it for you, and only with Father.
>>>>
>>>>>>******* Yes...
>>>>
>>>>>>There is a big difference between saying 'Thy Will Be Done' and BEING it.
>>>>>>Without the later, the former is shallow and without meaning or significance.
>>>>
>>>>>>******* Agree completely...
>>>>
>>>>Steffani.(choosing only love)
>>>>
>>I don't know, do I need to pack a couple of sets of boxing gloves?
>>I'm not sure I want to go bare knuckles with you - I might get hurt:)

>>^^^^^^^ I wouldn't intentionally hurt you...


Steffani

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

06/12/00 at 1:32 pm 

Caligastia:

>>>>>>>>Would it not be better to 'be' and show by example? If we are not the 'AM'
>>>>>>>>of the proposition then the words are little more than hypocrisy and our assumptions at teaching little more than arrogance.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>******* Yes it is essential to Be I AM for the words and teaching to be
>>>>>> meaningful and true...that which comes from ego is hypocritical
>>>>>> and arrogant.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Again, we disagree. THE EGO IS THE I AM and without it we are nothing.
>>>>How will YOU know when you've reached the AM of your life. Will a ray of light come thru the ceiling or some other celestial moment? The truth is that the designation is awarded by a master to a student. It is not a self designation for all of us lack the moment (usually) to see ourselves clearly. When one who is your teacher says to you that you've achieved this , that or the other, THEN it is properly placed within the ego. Until that moment arrives, we accept that we are all students and presume not to cross inappropriate boundaries.
>>
>>>>^^^^^^^ My Teacher tells me the best way to learn something is by His
>> asking me to teach it. Also that a ray of Light in a celestial
>> moment undoes the belief in the false self (ego) forever.
>>
>>
>>>>For example, I AM the planetary prince. I was not awarded the position due to any patronage or nepotism - I earned it. The position and title are properly assumed into the ego as a statement of fact and truth. That I don't go around shoving it down peoples throats speaks to the fact I have no weakness of ego that needs to draw attention or accolaides from others.
>>>>Nor do I have a wish to hold myself separate or apart.
>>
>>>>^^^^^^^gee...I was under the impression this is a job description with
>> the fascinating duties of guiding an evolutionary world and it's
>> people towards light and life. It would seem appropriate to
>> maintain a significant degree of personal involvement in the
>> project. I would hope someone in that position would give it his
>> very best efforts.
>>
>>
I don't think you got my point. You talk about ego and false ego and the like. The concept of false ego is used by the universe to deride those who don't and won't bend under their miscreance. It is a personal assault on the individual targeted, essentially saying the person is deemed mentally unstable because they don't agree with the facist universe. The reflects no love, tolernance, compassion, empathy or understanding. Nor was it intended to. It is a means to control by threat.

Where to you arrive at the idea that anything less than my best effort is ever proffered? I don't need my ego glorified by anyone else's praises. It was massive when I started this gig and doesn't seemed to have lessened in the endeavor. I have nothing to prove to anyone and certainly don't have to walk on the backs of others to get to where I'm going.


>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>******* Whatever Father Does is totally significant. Whatever
>>>>>> anyone 'else' may do is significant only to the degree that
>>>>>> it manifests the doing (or Being) of His Will.
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>I'll agree with your point but you missed mine. The issue was your assumption that Father's cares about Earth's materialistic nature.
>>
>>>>^^^^^^^ I stated to the point Father cares only for personalities not
>> things... Earth's materialistic culture is a local
>> governmental concern more for Michael at this time I would
>> imagine...or possibly you.
>>


No Steffani - it's YOUR concern. It matters not to me whether the people get to ascension riding a volkswagon or a royals royce just as long as they get there.

>>>>>>>>******* Paradise is always in the center of that eternal Creation...
>>>>>> and yes this central shining is ever 'seen' in my Mind
>>>>>> this IS very Real to Me...
>>>>>> I may know nothing but this One thing.
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>REally? You've been there? You know from first hand experience? I don't think so.
>>
>>>>^^^^^^^There may be a few things that you do not know...one is that when
>> I made the above statement...no matter how outrageous it might
>> sound to you it is said with all the sincerity of my being...

I know, and that's what bothers me.

>> I do not understand it nor can I explain it yet it is so...
>> if you had me 'eyeball to eyeball' you would not have made your
>> remark above.

Possibly.

It is one of those things I was really hoping you
>> could help me to understand...
>>

Then why not just ask. When you write these things, the form is frequently as a statement of fact. I feel that I am expected to say Amen. The shortest distance to the truth involves clearin away the baggage of expectations for if you're always peeking over or through that which you 'think' is true, you'll only be able to see through the filter of that expectation. Thus everything is colored and distorted.
>>
>>>>Instead you read some words and assumed them to be true. Before a couple of years ago, Havona was little more than a point in space. Today its a city that prepares for the Son's return. How do I know, I've been there.
>>>>
>>>>I harp over and over again on the issues of logic, reason and belief.
>>>>
>>>>In truth, you've heard about a place called Havona and you know what an invisible voice and invisible face had to say about it. You have no evidence that the voice proffering the information had been there themselves and whether they spoke from first hand experience or hearsay.
>>>>
>>>>Similar to, "I heard from a friend of a friend who was married to my third cousins brother in law". You have no factual chain of custody to validate the words and you have none of the authors available to query.
>>>>
>>>>The bottom line is, that from any point of logic or reason - you can't possibly know or speak intellgently to the point. Here one assumes the validity of the sourcing, accepts the limititations that no proof will be offered and choses to believe based only some subjective analysis.
>>
>>>>^^^^^^^ about this you could not be more wrong...this event happened
>> long before I found the UB...all it gave me is a frame of
>> reference and a hope that I might try one day to find words to
>> speak of space where none were needed nor possible for meaning.
>>>>

Thus it is not a reality you could show and share to others except through your own unique filtration system. Somewhat problimatical wouldn't you say?

>>>>>>>>>>His concept of an end of time celebration party is too much like a Frederico Fellini movie with all those decked out whores and horny beasts
>>>>>>>>>>and disgusting items on the barbeque menu. Actually Christ Micheal and Nebadonia can easily plan a better and far more glorious bash than this
>>>>>>>>>>to inaugurate Light and Life around here...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>*******Operative word is can do if They want to...Always in Father's Will.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Again, the light and life. Do you really believe you can have a true understanding of these words? You know, people accuse me of arrogance and on some issues it is true. I'm good at what I do and I know it. Yet, where does personal humility factor into the equation (or how can it) when one assumes to understand? Does prosteltyzing constitute understanding? Or perhaps repeating words by rote - does this elevate in individual to understanding?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>******* It is not arrogant to acknowlege that you are who you are or
>>>>>> good at what you do. Personal humility is the factor that accepts
>>>>>> the assignments and responsibilities Father gives one without
>>>>>> doubting that He will provide all the strength, wisdom, and power
>>>>>> to sucessfully fulfill them. I understand this much and trust
>>>>>> that you do also. All of us coming to a complete understanding
>>>>>> of Light and Life together is not a hope that I will relinquish.
>>>>>>
>>>> I can accept 'a hope' and 'a goal'. You know, in person you speak like a real life living person. Someone easy to relate to. When you write though, you go through some metamorphasis. It is one thing to say, " I hope that one day I will evolve myself to the level I have a true understand of what love is and what it truly means to stand in the light".
>>
>>>>^^^^^^^ in another moment you may try the integrity of my inner being.
>>

I accept your integrity and the good intentions. Were it not so, you'd not be coming here.


>>>>It is a vastly different prospect to presume and assume to already know when the evidence is such that a knowing isn't currently possible. From your writings, I'm of the opinion that you 1. wish to be of service to Father and 2. would welcome the role of teacher. Both are admirable aspirations.
>>
>>>>^^^^^^^ I do the best I can with the assignments given.
>>
>>>>I have, however, told you (politely) that teachers are appointed by Father or Son and unless and until that moment arrives, the best one should aim for is an equally valuable goal - that of truthsayer. It falls to such the truthsayer to not only know the truth - be one with it - be also be able to deliver it in a way that is understandable to the average person.
>>
>>>>^^^^^^^ I am able to share my truth with almost anyone in a way they
>> can understand. The mystery of my being is another issue.

I'm sure you believe this. Would it not be judicious to allow there might be a better way?

>>
>>>>Until you're willing to speak (and write) in the common language of the common man, to gain a true understanding of what goes on between their ears, your voice will not be heard no matter how many glowing celestial extracts are taken from the UB (or any other source). You might have noticed there aren't hoards of celestials running around here. You have no need to speak angelic double speak.
>>
>>>>^^^^^^^Many do hear what I say and understand it easily and express
>> appreciation for my efforts to communicate.

When the word 'many' becomes 'ALL' then you'll know what I'm talking about.


Nor have I noticed
>> any shortage of celestial beings around here who are willing to
>> communicate with us.
>>>>
Good guys or bad guys? One of the things I've done on the web site is to compile a roster of the personalities involved here and their repective roles (good and bad). You assume goodness - it might be a different matter to prove that goodness. You might consider that a higher being knows right where you live and where your buttons are. Thus the need to clear yourself of the baggage and expectations you carry.

>>>>>>>>Humility involves the recognition and acceptance of our limitations and not moving beyond them unless and until we have earned the right to do so.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>******* Accept the limitations others would place upon one and you
>>>>>> certainly have earned them by allowing their imposition.
>>>>
>>>>Recognition of the limitations of one's own ignorance is not an imposition by any other party.
>>>>
>>>>>> Father imposes none that are other than issues of maturity
>>>>>> and experience. Attempts to circumvent on that basis are futile.
>>>>
>>>>True, but how will YOU KNOW unless recognition of accomplishment comes from another source. You aren't competent to judge yourself. Few are.
>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> and will because enough of the
>>>>>>>>>>King's Kids continue to choose Love every day. 'God' really does have adequate alternative possible contingency plans in infinite variation.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>No, He doesn't. He has one plan and we're living it now.
>>>>>>>>******* OK but not everyone has consciously realized yet that His one
>>>>>> plan is the purposeful reason they are living now.
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Whether everyone recognizes it or not doesn't change the answer or the truth.
>>>>^^^^^^^ Very true.
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>The entire scenario can change as quickly as a mind relinquishes the thought of vengeance as acceptable.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Here you assume to know the degree and causal agents involved in the minds of the rebellion princes. Can you, as a mortal, presume to know the mind of an angel who has hundreds of thousands of years of life experience you don't? Can you understand the insults to their integrity that drove them past the moment of desparation which led them to where they are now?

>>>>>>>>If not, I'd submit that an understanding of the extreme rage they feel is beyond your comprehension.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>******* As a mortal probably not...yet this is the state in which it is
>>>>>> perhaps easiest to comprehend extreme rage...a condition which
>>>>>> is not a safe one to experience even as an animal. Insults to
>>>>>> everyone's integrity are commonplace on this planet... mostly
>>>>>> because we have yet to acknowledge our one Father Who loves us
>>>>>> all and relate to one another respectfully on that basis.
>>>>
>>>>Well, insults to a Lanonandek's integrity are not common place within the universe. If one wishes the short road to a lot of trouble, this is the way to go about it. I have the patience born of earth - they do not.
>>>>Further, it is inappropriate to assume that the rebellion princes are possessed of 'animal' rage. Father has already given voice to the fact that the causes of the rebellion were just. How do I know, I delivered the word to all the princes who would listen.
>>
>>>>^^^^^^^My statement was only intended to refer to earth and mortal
>> humans.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Again, humility is......
>>>>>>>>******* a trait of Christ Michael...the 'highest' Being I know. He has
>>>>>> never 'talked down' to or tried to humiliate me even when I am
>>>>>> in the process of receiving well deserved 'discipline'. He gives
>>>>>> gracious respect even to a creature that has a lot to learn...
>>>>>> which is exactly why I love and honor Him so as my 'Teacher'.
>>>>>> Yes... and for All else He is also.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Do you feel that I am talking down to you?
>>
>>>>^^^^^^^ Yes...sometimes it does feel that way when you attempt to deny
>> or invalidate truth based in personal experience that I share
>> from my heart...
>>

Steff:
Truth will stand on its own merit and I'll allow that spiritual issues are mostly experiential. HOWEVER, and its a BIG HOWEVER, what you view as spiritual I say is a REALITY. As such, it has rules. Things work they way they do because there are rules, boundaries and limitations. IF what you experience and accept is TRUE, then that truth CAN become a visible, tangible reality. I think you sell yourself short if you accept anything less.

For example: Saint John Borromeo used to fly around the church when he prayed. A reality reflecting physical laws and a spiritual reality behind it. Jesus walked on water - reflecting a state of spirituality that allowed him to do it AND within the context of a reality system.

Once a person accepts the experiential as reality without the demand for the next level of proof - you've not completed the journey to the 'truth'.
You've accepted the belief as though it was reality - not the reality.


>>>>I don't - I feel I approach you as an equal - mortal to mortal.
>>
>>>>^^^^^^^Perhaps this is the problem...I usually relate to the spirit of
>> another person from my spirit.
>>

I am a man, you are a woman. We share the earth together as one brother and one sister. That my origins are different than yours may allow I have a larger of supply of information available for sharing. This does not make me the greater or your the lesser. I'm certain there are things you know that I could learn from you. I've found I can always learn from others and have always been open to it. I do not wish to hold myself out, apart and separate, as a 'celestial'. I earned the right to be man. I've shoveled the same poor substances you have. I am one with my fellows by right of the journey.


>>>>I will admit that I lean a littler harder on you than I do others. There is a good purpose and a reason for this but I'll not discuss it until we're all together. I'd add that of the group coming - you are also the most stubborn:)
>>
>>>>^^^^^^^Well, I remember giving you permission to do this.
>> I may be tough but this is getting too difficult...I may be more
>> sensitive than you might think so I quit until we are one on one
>> and can read energy along with the words.
>> My head is much harder than my heart...which you already realize.
>>>>

Agreed. However, It's been my experience (mine) that writing things down serves to free some conscious aspect of my mind and allow access to portion s of my soul I don't commonly access. I've 'assumed' it is the same for you. I could be wrong (but I don't think so).

Also, I recognize the frailty you mention but I'll tell you this - you have a strength of spirit that is uncommon and it will serve you well in the future.


>>>>Like it or not, war does resolve disputes.
>>
>>>>^^^^^^^ IF it wasn't Father's will but your own would you reconsider
>> an alternative?
>>

If it wasn't Father's will, I wouldn't even be here at all. However, the most truthful answer I can give to your question is - I don't know.
It took far more than just me to make these things come to reality. I am only one voice in the choir.

Yet, in the application of violence, it has always been my policy to use only that which was absolutely necessary to achieve the purpose. Also, force is always the last consideration. During the course of my life on earth, I've had cause to be in a position of military involvements. when in the superior position, I have always given the opponent the opportunity to stand down (with honor).


>>>>>>>>******* Now that you've figured that out does it rule out all future
>>>>>> disagreement?
>>>>>>
>>>>Nope! Although I do have to admit it is difficult to argue with Him:)
>>
>>>>^^^^^^^This is said by the same person who is extolling the virtue of
>> surrender 2 comments south of this one?
>>>>

Yippers. Note the important aspect here is that I do bend to Father's will without giving up my own perspectives. I believe and accept his will because I am certain of his good intentions and have SEEN FOR MYSELF that he has never been in error.

Yet, my faith in Him has even greater applications at this moment of life.
I am stripped naked and go forth as an empty vessel waiting to be filled.
My faith allowed me to be so prepared even though it is my nature to tend to my own needs. The real faith is that He is waiting for my arrival willing to meet me at the moment. Faith also, in myself, that I have correctly understood His Will and my part in it.


>>>>>>>>Yet, even before you reach the moment of awarding Father your faith, there is a greater leap of faith to be faced. This one in yourself, that your logic and reason were, in fact, correct. This moment can be as wrenching as standing on the edge of the Grand Canyon pondering a leap to the other side, or as easy as walking through a door.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>******* Yes...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>The solution to the delimna of self faith likewise can be most difficult or quite easy. Jackie had such a moment - a moment of epihany. I'm sure she'll share it with you when you arrive. One can surrender themselves to Father without losing themselves. In fact, the opposite arrives. Upon surrender, the individual finds themselves.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>***** Yes...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Referring back to my previous comment on light and life. Do you think that you, or anyone else, can appreciate the words until they've truly completed the surrender I've just discussed?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>******* It is not possible to appreciate light or even life until one
>>>>>> has truly completed the surrender you've just discussed.
>>>>>>
>>>>I'll take that as a no.
>>
>>>>^^^^^^^That was a yes and agreement actually...

Whoops - I'm getting used to arguing with you.hehehehehehe
>>
>>>>>>>>Such a moment is between the individual and Father. Beware the guru, priest or minister that says he can lead you to this moment. Only you can do it for you, and only with Father.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>******* Yes...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>There is a big difference between saying 'Thy Will Be Done' and BEING it.
>>>>>>>>Without the later, the former is shallow and without meaning or significance.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>******* Agree completely...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Steffani.(choosing only love)
>>>>>>
>>>>I don't know, do I need to pack a couple of sets of boxing gloves?
>>>>I'm not sure I want to go bare knuckles with you - I might get hurt:)
>>
>>>>^^^^^^^ I wouldn't intentionally hurt you...
>>
>>
>>Steffani


Cal

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

06/12/00 at 10:05 pm 

Steffani Murray:

He says:
"I harp over and over again on the issues of logic, reason and belief."

She tries over and over again to address the issues using intuition, feeling and faith.

What we are engaging in is not 'argument'...it is communication breakdown.

He uses the term 'ego' as she would interpret from the context to mean 'strength of character'
...self assurance in a positive sense. :-)

She uses the term 'ego' to mean everything 'phoney baloney'or 'unreal'
...Self denial in a negative sense. :-(

Freud and Jesus use it differently too...
and so on and so forth.(shoobedobedoo)
Whether the difficulty is her writing or his reading of what is written
or vice versa matters little...it isn't working well.
Perhaps the writing is only for the reason of helping the writer to clarify his or her own mind.

He says:
" Would it not be judicious to allow there might be a better way?"

She says:
Yes...and I pray that we may find it soon. ;-)

She reminds him once again that she does not accept the idea of "good guys
and bad guys"...only behaviors.
This is a concept she learned while working in the wonderful world of mental health...
she believes this for a reason she has heard him state as:
"Father created everyone for a purpose".
It allows her to tolerate everyone as they are now more easily...
a practice she finds expedient and very useful in maintaining peace of mind.
There is a very good chance that he will consider this illogiCAL.

So be it.
Only Love. Steffani.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

06/13/00 at 12:30 am 

I agree, we're not communicating. Let's give it a break.

Cal
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

06/13/00 at 10:08 pm 

Steffani Murray:

>>Steffani,
>>
>>Don't be disheartened! Please understand that All of us learn through your interaction with Cal. Your mind is so bright and you are so alert in this world.
>>
>>*cinde*
>>
>>******* Thanks Cinde BF...(well I do appreciate all aspects of you)
Glad you found me to be alert...
America needs more lerts.

I'm actually far more heartened than I may have sounded.
When a personality is particularly hard headed
it is fun for awhile to bash your head against a brick wall.
One may even feel a sense of accomplishment in knocking out
a brick or two.
Eventually though if you find yourself with a headache
and the wall is for the most part still standing...
It is time to go get a tall crane and a big steel wrecking ball!
Bigger fun and the pain goes away...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

06/13/00 at 10:19 pm 

Steffani Murray:

Well Cal...if you're overboard there's a fairly good chance Someone will
throw you a lifeline...

Only Love.
Steffani.


Cal (06/13/00 at 1:16 am) wrote:

>>We are all Americans.
>>
>>I'm not certain that I didn't go a little overboard with this one - if so,
>>let me know.
>>
>>Cal


Steffani Murray

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

06/14/00 at 11:09 pm 

Steffani Murray:

Well Cal...baaaaaaabbling sheepishly isn't really comparable to the quiet innocence of lambitude but when do we get to hear you and John Phillip Sousa play off each others' dramatic brilliance?

What if the Lamb decides to wage peace instead of war?
For Him it's really no contest...
Anyone One with Father can never lose!
Whatever He says goes...

Only Love.
Steffani.

Cal (06/13/00 at 10:44 pm) wrote:

>>Well, I figured that I may as well be hung for a sheep as a lamb. After the heartening okay here on the forum, I put together an hour show built around the monologue. Hope you like John Phllips Sousa:)
>>
>>Cal
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

06/14/00 at 11:25 pm 

Steffani Murray:

Thanks Nina...encouragement appreciated...you ever watched those hard
headed mountain goats butt heads on the discovery channel...
you can hear the shock wave as they hit and you think Ouch!
They don't stop for too long 'cause they enjoy it.
Glad there has been entertainment provided for others
as it has been educational for me.
Only Love.
Steffani.


Nina (06/14/00 at 7:40 pm) wrote:

>> Steph & Cal:
>>I support Cinde. Your discussions serve good purpose.
>>The energy flowing between you two is nearly tangible! Your efforts are appreciated. Take a break...and then pace yourselves... ? no need to strain your self! Your duration will be appreciated.
>>~Nina~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

06/15/00 at 12:39 pm 

Caligastia:

This weeks show is the last three interviews. Next week's us the flag waving. As to your comment about the Son - he won't. His course is set as much as mine is. You can only speak peace to those willing to listen.
We don't start this war - but we do finish it.

Regardless of the comments of the UB, one must allow that I pick my associations well.

Cal

Steffani Murray (06/14/00 at 11:09 pm) wrote:

>>
>>Well Cal...baaaaaaabbling sheepishly isn't really comparable to the quiet innocence of lambitude but when do we get to hear you and John Phillip Sousa play off each others' dramatic brilliance?
>>
>>What if the Lamb decides to wage peace instead of war?
>>For Him it's really no contest...
>>Anyone One with Father can never lose!
>>Whatever He says goes...
>>
>>Only Love.
>>Steffani.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

06/15/00 at 9:58 pm 

Steffani Murray:

Cal (06/15/00 at 12:39 pm) wrote:

>>This weeks show is the last three interviews. Next week's us the flag waving. As to your comment about the Son - he won't. His course is set as much as mine is. You can only speak peace to those willing to listen.
>>We don't start this war - but we do finish it.

>>+++++++ Right on time for the Fourth of July. I wonder if there will be
a really spectacular fireworks show this time?

>>Regardless of the comments of the UB, one must allow that I pick my associations well.

>>++++++++ All Power is given unto the Son by the Father.
For they are as One...
It is inevitable their unified Will prevail.
Absolute Power is wielded only by the Incorruptible
and shared only with those He entrusts
to use it only to (re)establish His Divine Plan.
This association assures success even to accomplish
what seems impossible...
Wholehearted Faith is still required.

>>Only Love
>>Steffani
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

06/19/00 at 9:54 pm 

Steffani Murray:

Dear aka Cal...

Decking the halls with Holly's follies in time for Xmas in July?
Please be careful while you are reading Peter's thoughts...
you might make the poor dear feel more paranoid.

sorry Cal
a little voice being beamed into my mind by the CIA made me do it.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

06/19/00 at 9:58 pm 

Give the guy a break Janey...
you know he sent his TA back home.
Only Love.
Steffani

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

06/20/00 at 10:16 am 

Steffani Murray:

Hi Greg...Amazingly graceful how a little 'cross training' may serve to
undo the 'whole enchilada' so to speak.

I do understand Janey's reluctance to know those memories completely
until the 'time' comes to remember...

To do so can take one farther than an octave as form dematerializes.

One might find oneself back in the Center of the Infinite Eternal Shining
that is the Source of creation.

This can be somewhat inconvenient if Father still has in Mind a role
for one to play in the universal time/space karma-drama that is unfolding.

Rebuilding physical vehicles from DNA patterns on spaceships is somewhat
problematic although apparently doable.(a voice of experience here;-)

It is perhaps best to not 'go home' prematurely and put one's attendent angels and TA to all that trouble
by deciding 'enough is enough' on one's own first.

Once one has done this by vacating "the rock and the shell" the longing
to experience this once again is incredible making patience difficult.

Only a complete surrender to Father's Will and Plan in each moment
makes this possible at all.

Can't think about all this too much more right now .

Only Love.
Steffani


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

06/21/00 at 9:57 pm 

Caligastia:

Greg (06/21/00 at 8:29 am) wrote:

>>wow!
>>
>>Steffani Murray (06/20/00 at 10:16 am) wrote:
>>
>>>>
>>>>Hi Greg...Amazingly graceful how a little 'cross training' may serve to
>>>>undo the 'whole enchilada' so to speak.
>>>>
>>>>I do understand Janey's reluctance to know those memories completely
>>>>until the 'time' comes to remember...
>>>>
>>>>To do so can take one farther than an octave as form dematerializes.
>>>>
>>
>>I figure, leave a trail of bread crumbs and you can come right back.
>>There are credible stories of certain people who can raise and lower
>>vibrations at will.

>>*** Light crumbs maybe...a TA should know the way home.
I hear tell there are folks who can maintain personality integrity
on every level too.


>>>>One might find oneself back in the Center of the Infinite Eternal Shining
>>>>that is the Source of creation.
>>>>
>>>>This can be somewhat inconvenient if Father still has in Mind a role
>>>>for one to play in the universal time/space karma-drama that is unfolding.
>>>>
>>
>>Well, if you were to wind up at the "CIES" would it not have been Fathers plan? I'm just talking about jumping back and forth between space/time
>>and linear anyway, not a one way trip up the octaves.

*** There must be experiential 'surprises' to perhaps everyone except
Father built into His Plan though.

>>
>>>>Rebuilding physical vehicles from DNA patterns on spaceships is somewhat
>>>>problematic although apparently doable.(a voice of experience here;-)
>>>>
>>>>It is perhaps best to not 'go home' prematurely and put one's attendent angels and TA to all that trouble
>>>>by deciding 'enough is enough' on one's own first.
>>>>
>>
>>Sounds like you may have a story to tell, I would love to hear it.
>>
***yes I do...it might sound a trifle uh, 'bizarre' however. Not any
stranger than a lot of stuff in the UB though. It took me 30 years to
find the 1st person I could tell it to without getting 'the look'.
(glazeover... deer in the headlights)
Truth is far stranger than (science) fiction at least sometimes.

>>
>>
>>>>Once one has done this by vacating "the rock and the shell" the longing
>>>>to experience this once again is incredible making patience difficult.
>>>>
>>>>Only a complete surrender to Father's Will and Plan in each moment
>>>>makes this possible at all.
>>>>
>>
>>Ok, Stef. A very serious question for you. Spawned by these last few
>>comments. There are obvious parallels.
>>
>>What is your belief or opinion or knowing as to why the Heavens Gate cult did what they did?

***I see no parallels between these events at all.
>>
***I thought about this some when it happened. My co-workers were all so busy saying "oh, ain't it awful!" but I tried to understand where the distortion of truth that would cause people to mutilate their bodies and commit suicide came from. This is more an 'opinion' than a 'belief' or a
'knowing'. I decided that they probably had a major 'level confusion' between the physical and spiritual dimensions going on in their heads.
I do remember standing around in the parking lot with a few friends at
the healing center where I had my UB study group skywatching Hale-Bopp
passing over. The thought that crossed my mind and rocketed off into the
heavens was..."well guys, after all you put yourselves through I certainly hope you managed to catch a ride wherever it was you wanted to go."

It is a 'belief' of mine though that this 'world' isn't left behind through death but by truth and 'enlightenment'.
>>
>>
Is this an answer that makes any sense to you?


>>Only Love.
>>Steffani

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

07/06/00 at 12:26 am 

Steffani Murray:

Aften (06/22/00 at 12:05 pm) wrote:

>>Greg (06/22/00 at 8:33 am) wrote:
>>
>>>>>>>>Steffani Murray (06/20/00 at 10:16 am) wrote:
>>
>>>>>>It is a 'belief' of mine though that this 'world' isn't left behind through death but by truth and 'enlightenment'.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>Is this an answer that makes any sense to you?
>>
>> To me, if one left mortality behind not threw death but by "rapture"
>>as it is written in revelations, then truth and enlightenment are yours
>>because you have earned it. Steff, what are your thoughts on this?
>>
>>
>>Hi Greg...Sorry it's taken time to respond. I've been 'away'.
Rapture as I previously understood it was a Christian fundamentalist term for a group planetary 'leaving','ascension', 'harvest',or UB term 'dispensational adjudication',etc. What I had in mind was more of an event of an individual 'leaving by bibical term 'translation' also same word used in the UB to equate to 'TA fusion' from mortality. It begins the ascendant career no matter the terminology or method. An alternative process to 'natural' death being utilized to as the UB succinctly states it
to "be released from the bonds of the flesh".
Cal has a possibly analogous occurence of transformation to undergo during
'repersonalization'.
Well...these are my 2:30 am thoughts on the matter.
Only Love.
Steffani
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

07/06/00 at 8:33 am 

Well, let's see - analogous hmmmm

Shake, Rattle and Roll?

Cal

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

07/06/00 at 7:09 pm 

...maybe more like 'rattle and hum' by U2
whenever UB ready for a 'spacejam'
IB ready to rock and roll...

Only Love.
Steffani

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

07/06/00 at 7:42 pm 

Steffani Murray:

Hi All...
Returning to my own world today reflecting on the wonder of how such diverse personalities showed up by Father's invitation to meet in the world of another and have such an incredibly good time together...
This past week will remain an experience to remember and be grateful for throughout time even if only for the fellowship shared...
the reaching out for understanding in truth, beauty and goodness
will no doubt yield meanings and eventuate values that will shine forth
in the realization of His perfect plan and purpose on into eternity.
My heartfelt thanks to everyOne who chose to participate and made the considerable effort to Be there.
Only Love.
Steffani
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

07/06/00 at 8:53 pm 

Steffani Murray:

Cal (07/06/00 at 1:44 pm) wrote:

>>A new Page is up - Show me the Beef!
>>
>>Dear Cal...You state "should not those who come in Father's name be willing to walk side by side with you without fear"?
Indeed my answer would be a resounding YES!
Please understand that as confident as you remain in the linear and logical rationale of masculine requirements of reason and purpose...
there are those for whom intuitive Knowing yields certainty equal to
nothing that the transient ephemeral external 'reality' ever can.

See and do whatsoever you will with all that beef...
This 'veggie' trusts Father's will is manifest in my Being
as His Presence creates fearlessness and tranquility of mind.
No other 'proof' of Truth is necessary for me.

Perhaps you will see fit to excercise this opportunity to understand an alternative position as valid without insisting it needs to be changed
to the 'right' perspective...even as I respect your point of view as that which you consider the most acceptable perspective because it works well for you at this time.

Supremely Safe and Secure in Father's Love,
Steffani

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

07/06/00 at 11:22 pm

Caligastia:

Steffani:
What a remarkably left handed post. Hormonal males require proofs and reason while constricted within the boundaries of their on linearity.
Females, on the other hand, feel their way to heaven without the restrictions of linearity and where I worthy of that understanding, I'd know that some (presumeably females) can surpass the boundaries of reality by some process (unknown to males) without logic or reason.

That's my translation of the post.

I was recently told by a female that their 'spirits' declined to downshift to our lowly 3d state due to the poor circumstances experienced by The Son.
In any rational scenario - I'd define that as fear. It begs the question,
"How can any so called elevated spirit be elevated when they've not conquered their own fear?" The answer is simple - they can't.

>>Knowing yields certainty equal to
>>nothing that the transient ephemeral external 'reality' ever can.

"Transient ephemeral external"?

I assume that this seemingly new age phrase means mortality. If so, it assumes that truth varies from dimension to dimension and that ones possession of a skin suit automatically precludes knowing the truth.
Fortunately, truth is never a variable, it is always a pure substance absolute in itself not alterable from moment to moment or dimension to dimension.

Of course, in the poor hormonal ignorance of my maleness - any true understanding of 'the truth' is not possible unless I sacrifice logic and reason to feeling and emotion.

>>This 'veggie' trusts Father's will is manifest in my Being
>>as His Presence creates fearlessness and tranquility of mind.
>>No other 'proof' of Truth is necessary for me.
>>

For the sake of those who don't know - Steffani is a vegitarian. Not to be confused with being a vegitable:)

I'm afraid you missed the point of the new page. You may choose to feel anyway you wish about your own status. Whether or feelings are true or not remain to be seen. The point of the comment was directed towards those unseen voices some consider friendly. If mine can condesend to downshift to 3d without fear - why then can't those who sit in the shadows attempting to manipulate people?


>>Perhaps you will see fit to excercise this opportunity to understand an alternative position as valid without insisting it needs to be changed
>>to the 'right' perspective...even as I respect your point of view as that which you consider the most acceptable perspective because it works well for you at this time.
>>

I've not insisted that anything needs to be changed. One's choices are as the individual wills it. However, the truth has no alternative side. Furthermore, I do not use myself as a yardstick for anyone else's behaviors or views other than my own. I tell the truth as I know it to be. What another makes of it is up to them. One might allow, as a product of reason,
that if I am the planetary prince, that my view of things might also be the product of some level of education and experience not commonly possessed by those who are so much younger in their journeys than I. If such a consideration is not allowed - that's okay also.

On occasion, your writings remind me of a particular mind set among Christians who believe that as long as they go about declaring they've been saved that they actually are.

Ironically, it takes 3 angels of high status to perform a judgement. The possessor of this mindset might allow that it isn't their individual opinion that counts but rather that of those who sit in judgement.

Cal

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

07/07/00 at 11:51 pm 

Steffani Murray:

Cal (07/06/00 at 11:22 pm) wrote:

>>Steffani:
>> What a remarkably left handed post. Hormonal males require proofs and reason while constricted within the boundaries of their on linearity.
>>Females, on the other hand, feel their way to heaven without the restrictions of linearity and where I worthy of that understanding, I'd know that some (presumeably females) can surpass the boundaries of reality by some process (unknown to males) without logic or reason.

>>+++Left hand...right hemisphere dominated...correct.(latin aka'sinister')
Actually the hormonally feminized brain is quite capable of using logic and reason...
and the masculinized brain can learn to access intuitive functions...
many personalities see benefit in learning androgynous balance of mindal
functions while utilizing a mammalian primate vehicle of expression...
even though this too shall soon pass (thank God).

>>That's my translation of the post.
>>
>>I was recently told by a female that their 'spirits' declined to downshift to our lowly 3d state due to the poor circumstances experienced by The Son.
>>In any rational scenario - I'd define that as fear. It begs the question,
>>"How can any so called elevated spirit be elevated when they've not conquered their own fear?" The answer is simple - they can't.

>>+++ Would jumping into a cage full of fear crazed hungry animals be an act of fearless bravado or mere stupidity? Besides if one were the equivalent of eight feet tall and bulletproof what would be the point of
reverting to something as weak and fragile as a human style skin suit?

>>>>Knowing yields certainty equal to
>>>>nothing that the transient ephemeral external 'reality' ever can.
>>
>>"Transient ephemeral external"?
>>
>>I assume that this seemingly new age phrase means mortality. If so, it assumes that truth varies from dimension to dimension and that ones possession of a skin suit automatically precludes knowing the truth.
>>Fortunately, truth is never a variable, it is always a pure substance absolute in itself not alterable from moment to moment or dimension to dimension.

>>+++ Truth being of God is changeless...however the particular form in which one finds oneself at a particular time/space juncture may vary the individual's perceptual vantage point from which s/he views it at that
experiential moment. Phase changes of form do not preclude knowing truth
nor one's real Self.

>>Of course, in the poor hormonal ignorance of my maleness - any true understanding of 'the truth' is not possible unless I sacrifice logic and reason to feeling and emotion.

>>+++ Sacrifice in Reality is impossible...if you see the value of both aspects they are included and utilized in the interests of completion.

>>>>This 'veggie' trusts Father's will is manifest in my Being
>>>>as His Presence creates fearlessness and tranquility of mind.
>>>>No other 'proof' of Truth is necessary for me.
>>>>
>>
>>For the sake of those who don't know - Steffani is a vegitarian. Not to be confused with being a vegitable:)

>>+++ Perhaps you would consider anyone who allows the possibility that
Father's All Pervasive loving Presence encompasses the grand universe within His own Being is in a persistant vegetative state?

>>I'm afraid you missed the point of the new page. You may choose to feel anyway you wish about your own status. Whether or feelings are true or not remain to be seen. The point of the comment was directed towards those unseen voices some consider friendly. If mine can condesend to downshift to 3d without fear - why then can't those who sit in the shadows attempting to manipulate people?

>>+++ There are always those who believe I miss the point of things by
my choice to see them differently...let me assure you this is purposeful.
>>
>>>>Perhaps you will see fit to excercise this opportunity to understand an alternative position as valid without insisting it needs to be changed
>>>>to the 'right' perspective...even as I respect your point of view as that which you consider the most acceptable perspective because it works well for you at this time.
>>>>
>>
>>I've not insisted that anything needs to be changed. One's choices are as the individual wills it. However, the truth has no alternative side. Furthermore, I do not use myself as a yardstick for anyone else's behaviors or views other than my own. I tell the truth as I know it to be. What another makes of it is up to them. One might allow, as a product of reason,
>>that if I am the planetary prince, that my view of things might also be the product of some level of education and experience not commonly possessed by those who are so much younger in their journeys than I. If such a consideration is not allowed - that's okay also.

>>+++ It must indeed be difficult for a planetary prince to find his functioning somewhat attenuated by being in the same semblance of mortality as are the creatures on his sphere of sovereignty...

>>On occasion, your writings remind me of a particular mind set among Christians who believe that as long as they go about declaring they've been saved that they actually are.

>>+++ Well, my personal preference in that regard is to be used as often as possible rather than 'saved' for a special occasion.

>>Ironically, it takes 3 angels of high status to perform a judgement. The possessor of this mindset might allow that it isn't their individual opinion that counts but rather that of those who sit in judgement.

>>+++ Christ Michael's Spirit Of Truth ever offers judgements that are healing and corrective ensuring the mandates of perfection may be fulfilled
so that Father's judgement may be welcomed with joy and gladness...
the end of this world will be it's translation into Heaven.

Only Love.
Steffani.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

07/08/00 at 7:27 pm 

Caligastia:

My exchanges with Steffani have been a well spring of insight and inspiration (for me). The issue of those firmly imbedded in their chosen beliefs are such that a gauge can be used. As with most things, this measurement would run from light to heavy with plenty of room in between.

I leave it to the reader to draw their own conclusions but these are mine.

Steffani believes:

1. She is right and I am wrong. Not matter how much padding or dressing up is added to the equation - the bottom line will arrive in this place.

2. That the information supplied to her by unseen voices has relevance even though no standard of in your face proving has ever been offered and, in all likelihood, never will be. It is the nature of 'belief' which enables such accomodations.

3. During the Adventure II, my people arrived and made themselves known, allowing for a connection between they and me. The feat, performed before eight people, sane and not possessed of mental abberation, constitutes evidence.

Conversely, Steffani's elevated spirits (assumed to be) will not do likewise (as it was explained to me) because of the poor treatment The Son received as Jesus. It begs the question of how an 'elevated' being can be so in 'fear'. Regardless, the song goes that belief is a valid subsitute for fact.

4. She allows for the difference in perspectives as being gender related but allows that the female is able to process material logically. I'll agree that the principle gender difference is that men process the logic first and the feeling second while the female does the opposite. Neither procedure is either better or worse as both can reach the same conclusion
if they both reach perspectives of logic and reason. I do not see that the extreme level of 'belief' demonstrated during our dialogues would allow arrival at any logical destination.

5. Steffani must, to maintain her unique paradigm arrive at the conclusion that I can not be Caligastia. Only by this decision (also a belief) can she maintain her belief system without benefit of proof even though she has seen that proofs can be delivered. On the other hand, Steffani believes herself to be wrapped in 'Father's Love' and is comfortable in her self image that she's 'got it'. While I'll agree that Father loves all of his children, Steffani disallows the fact that Father Himself does not sit in judgement over planet Earth. I do. I and two other angels of sufficient status. In the first judgement these were Michael, Old One and myself.
A fourth has arrived who also is of sufficient status, Lucifer. One might note that we are all 'male' and no amount of wishful thinking will make it otherwise.

It follows (as a matter of logic), that my views on the issues of ascendancy can not be in error as I am qualified to sit in judgement. Were it not so, I'd not even be here. It further follows that as I can't be in error, Steffani, and those of similar mindset, are left with two alternatives. These are

a. Disallow a recognition of identity and proceed along the same delusionary path. To do so, the individual must ignore what is now mounting and monumental evidence to the contrary. Beliefs being what they are, it takes no piece of logic or reason to support the proposition and it thus becomes the path of least resistance. Judgement is mine saith The Lord.
There are three Lords of the Universe on Earth and THE LORD of the universe as well. None of us speak new age.

b. Give recognition of identity and accept the paradigm as rational, reasonable, and proveable. To the entrenched believer, crossing the boundaries of their own inflexibility of thought will become the hardest thing they've ever done - but, when achieved, also the easiest.


Can a person, so deluded be ascendant?

Sure, although the inverse might equally be true. The real issue is one of degree.

However, one must take note that Father's service requires more than holy lip service. The ascendant soul will never assume themselves to be so. The selfrighteous Pharisee would. The person who assumes themself to be wrapped in Father's Love treads on dangerous ground in as much as they've assumed to know the totality of the mind of God; something not even the Son can lay claim to.


Where Steffani is concerned, she was invited to witness a level of proving few will ever be allowed. I believe she left somewhat impressed but not sufficiently so to inspire a reconsideration of paradigm, assumption and belief.

3d or 4d, it's all the same reality.

It's my point in writing this that I see no further purpose in the dialogue. As a matter of policy, I don't debate beliefs. I do indulge conversation on hard and fast realities. I can't change Steffani's opinions, nor do I wish to. I tell (and in this instance showed) the truth.
What one does with it beyond that point - is up to them. That's what freewill is about.


From day one of my public endeavors on these subjects I've said one thing repeatedly. See it, touch it, and kick the tires. Assume nothing. Those of the Adventure II were permitted to do all these things. I asked nothing of them as well. My efforts here were gifts to each one. I am FLESH and in your face. The invisible dimensional manipulators are not. I walk amongst you without fear - if they could say the same - they'd do so.

Such are the facts - make of them what you will.


Caligastia

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

07/08/00 at 10:27 pm 

Steffani Murray:

Dear One...Sounds like I've been "Mene mene tekel upharsin"ed again;-)
I too have found our exchanges from your first flight over to UBRON to be
" a wellspring of insight and inspiration". My goal from the beginning was to try to gain understanding of your 'issues'. I have never doubted your
(concurrent)identity. Unless I have complete trust in Father and Michael could I then have come to you without fear? As you have said I am an ordinary person...but I have had and continue to have extraordinary experiences. I have much appreciated the gift of your time and thoughts.Michael has been able to explain much to me about what is not going well in the universe and why on the basis of our interactions. You seem to have been brought into my life for that purpose. I am grateful.
As far as judgement goes my intentions are to keep asking Father each morning what He wills for me to do that day,ask for the strength to do it,
and keep putting one foot in front of the other until it's time to go home.
If you have a better idea I'm willing to listen...but it really looks to me
like you're on a trust walk too.
I really wish you could hear me because your presence in my universe is of infinite value and you are very much loved.(unconditionally)

Only Love.
Steffani.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

07/08/00 at 10:52 pm

Caligastia:

Steffani Murray (07/08/00 at 10:27 pm) wrote:

>>
>>Dear One...Sounds like I've been "Mene mene tekel upharsin"ed again;-)
>>I too have found our exchanges from your first flight over to UBRON to be
>>" a wellspring of insight and inspiration". My goal from the beginning was to try to gain understanding of your 'issues'. I have never doubted your
>>(concurrent)identity. Unless I have complete trust in Father and Michael could I then have come to you without fear? As you have said I am an ordinary person...but I have had and continue to have extraordinary experiences. I have much appreciated the gift of your time and thoughts.Michael has been able to explain much to me about what is not going well in the universe and why on the basis of our interactions. You seem to have been brought into my life for that purpose. I am grateful.
>>As far as judgement goes my intentions are to keep asking Father each morning what He wills for me to do that day,ask for the strength to do it,
>>and keep putting one foot in front of the other until it's time to go home.
>>If you have a better idea I'm willing to listen...but it really looks to me
>>like you're on a trust walk too.
>>I really wish you could hear me because your presence in my universe is of infinite value and you are very much loved.(unconditionally)
>>
>>Only Love.
>>Steffani.
>>

Thank you for you kind thoughts. The only thought I have is that 'truth is where you find it'. Sometimes, its right under one's nose. I don't believe I ever thought of you as ordinary. I did say that we were all average in appearance.


>>I really wish you could hear me because your presence in my universe is of infinite value and you are very much loved.(unconditionally)

I have been told by females that I score major points on two personality traits. Firstly, I listen and secondly, that I rate well on sincerity.
Point in fact, I do and have HEARD. My concerns for the invisble voices crowd is considerable. A TA is one thing. I hold their endeavors in high regard and their 'voice' is always internal and extremely recognizable by the individual in question. Those who attempt to pass themselves off as 'holy' or 'elevated' are another matter. People, myself included, can be fooled. Personally, my gullibility factor is rather low - yet infallibility is not mine. If you reread the chapter on Evil you might find some points of invisible commonality in the methodology.

Based upon the events during the Adventure, and the issues of attachments,
I have instructed mine to root out every single last one of them on the planet and, in the absence of immediate surrender, to exterminate every single one of them to the last man. Aside from the fact that they are an affliction upon my people, I'll not leave an enemy force behind my lines when I leave here to take my place in the war in heaven. The Days of Tolerance are at an end and the Day of The Warrior is upon us.


Cal

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

07/09/00 at 11:03 pm 

Steffani Murray:

Cal (07/08/00 at 10:52 pm) wrote:

>>
>>Thank you for you kind thoughts. The only thought I have is that 'truth is where you find it'. Sometimes, its right under one's nose. I don't believe I ever thought of you as ordinary. I did say that we were all average in appearance.

>>+++ You are truly deserving of kind thoughts. You are quite right about where to find truth. I find it as close as the TA in my mind and the love in my heart. My life is quite ordinary although I am blessed by the opportunities in my daily work that allow for pointing others in the direction of the truth of God that is my happiness. It may also be found in their own minds and hearts...it can set them free from their personal hells. This is sufficient to give a mundane and modest life meaning...
to share the truth that Father loves everyone no matter what.
>>
>>>>I really wish you could hear me because your presence in my universe is of infinite value and you are very much loved.(unconditionally)
>>
>>I have been told by females that I score major points on two personality traits. Firstly, I listen and secondly, that I rate well on sincerity.

+++You Guys...always into 'scoring points' I'll give you 110% on sincerety
...but only 80% on listening...you stop at the point you perceive the other person sees the matter differently (and disagreement automatically means the 'other' has fallen into error)

>>Point in fact, I do and have HEARD. My concerns for the invisble voices crowd is considerable. A TA is one thing. I hold their endeavors in high regard and their 'voice' is always internal and extremely recognizable by the individual in question. Those who attempt to pass themselves off as 'holy' or 'elevated' are another matter. People, myself included, can be fooled. Personally, my gullibility factor is rather low - yet infallibility is not mine. If you reread the chapter on Evil you might find some points of invisible commonality in the methodology.

>>+++ Well...you have chosen mostly to listen to 'Old One' channeled through Jackie rather than your TA as a source of information. I remain unconvinced as to the reliability of the one over the other since I do
'believe' the TA to be an actual whole ('holy')individualized particle of
Father's Being. It's Presence within the mind brings with It complete invulnerability... protection from the machinations of 'evil'(those who have forgotten what they are).I really don't know anyone who tries to pass themselves off as 'elevated'.
I have a friend who is an astrophysicist and although I am well versed on many scientific matters for a 'layperson' there is at times a need for him to use less technical words and concepts in explaining things to me than he would in speaking with similarly educated fellow scientists for me to 'get it'. This doesn't necessarily mean that I am less intelligent
...just unfamiliar with jargon and ideas that I haven't had the opportunity to experience to that degree. This is simply a matter of common sense.
Right now we have had a struggle to find words that mean enough in common for both of us to try to understand each other with mortal 'peabrains'
...do you suppose it will be easier or harder
to communicate when you 'repersonalize' and are in a completely different modality of consciousness. My interactions with 'celestial' personalities
have always been loving and positive...that is all I know based on my own experience.

>>Based upon the events during the Adventure, and the issues of attachments,

+++ The only 'adverse energy' that I encountered during the entire experience was whatever tried to convince Dennis that I would try to interfere with Father's Plan for his life. In reality I had stated that
completing his mission and being about Father's business is all that matters. Whether that misperception came from his own mind or not I cannot say.

>>I have instructed mine to root out every single last one of them on the planet and, in the absence of immediate surrender, to exterminate every single one of them to the last man. Aside from the fact that they are an affliction upon my people, I'll not leave an enemy force behind my lines when I leave here to take my place in the war in heaven. The Days of Tolerance are at an end and the Day of The Warrior is upon us.
>>
>>+++ Excuse me Dear One...wasn't intolerance and the extermination of that which was inimicable to the established order the initial problem
that has made it necessary for you to feel you have to fight for survival in the first place...
doesn't this sort of behavior perpetuate it?

It remains my hope that everyone will come to the realization that the 'jihad' is internal before needless further divestation is unwisely chosen. How can waging still one more war bring peace?

I'm sorry but for me the war was in my own mind and it is over...
I have made another choice.
Peace is all.


Only Love. Steffani,

>>Cal
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>


Steffani Murray

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

07/10/00 at 10:24 am 

Caligastia:

>>
>>+++You Guys...always into 'scoring points' I'll give you 110% on sincerety
>>...but only 80% on listening...you stop at the point you perceive the other person sees the matter differently (and disagreement automatically means the 'other' has fallen into error)

I'd disagree with your assessment and offer that the inverse may be true.
YOU stop listening when the other person is deemed to be in error.


>>
>>>>+++ Well...you have chosen mostly to listen to 'Old One' channeled through Jackie rather than your TA as a source of information.


Incorrect. Don't you think I have these abilities myself? And who do you think taught Jackie how to use them? As for my TA, you make 1 BIG assumption and 1 BIG boo boo on listening or reading. I DON'T HAVE A TA.

I remain unconvinced as to the reliability of the one over the other since I do
>>'believe' the TA to be an actual whole ('holy')individualized particle of
>>Father's Being.

Believe as you will. when you can show me the 'particle' I'd be more impressed.


It's Presence within the mind brings with It complete invulnerability... protection from the machinations of 'evil'(those who have forgotten what they are).I really don't know anyone who tries to pass themselves off as 'elevated'.

Yes yes, I've heard this by rote repetition from the UB before. (from you - when I was listening)

>> I have a friend who is an astrophysicist and although I am well versed on many scientific matters for a 'layperson' there is at times a need for him to use less technical words and concepts in explaining things to me than he would in speaking with similarly educated fellow scientists for me to 'get it'. This doesn't necessarily mean that I am less intelligent
>>...just unfamiliar with jargon and ideas that I haven't had the opportunity to experience to that degree. This is simply a matter of common sense.

>>Right now we have had a struggle to find words that mean enough in common for both of us to try to understand each other with mortal 'peabrains'
>>...do you suppose it will be easier or harder
>>to communicate when you 'repersonalize' and are in a completely different modality of consciousness. My interactions with 'celestial' personalities
>>have always been loving and positive...that is all I know based on my own experience.
>>

1. I don't seem to have any trouble getting across to most people. You seem to be an exception. Mostly in that I won't learn New Age with Old One works much better.

2. As to your loving interactions with celestials - BS! 'all I know' is right. When all of this love is going on, I saw a different person. Even Old One drew it to your attention. For two days, I tended to your security and those with us and did so with the tacit agreement of all concerned.
The limit of your knowledge is the problem and your unwillingness to go beyond 'all I know'.

3. You have the right to be used and/or manipulated if you wish. YOu can dress it up and call it elevated and celestial. Yet, in my book, its no different than being mugged in a dark alley.


>>
>>+++ The only 'adverse energy' that I encountered during the entire experience was whatever tried to convince Dennis that I would try to interfere with Father's Plan for his life. In reality I had stated that
>>completing his mission and being about Father's business is all that matters. Whether that misperception came from his own mind or not I cannot say.
>>

Dueling spirits? I rather think that incident was the result of Dennis' subconscious recognition of the attachment issue where you were concerned.
His reaction was, admittedly, an over reaction and I, personally, already knew you were transporting an uninvited guest.

>>>>+++ Excuse me Dear One...wasn't intolerance and the extermination of that which was inimicable to the established order the initial problem
>>that has made it necessary for you to feel you have to fight for survival in the first place... >>doesn't this sort of behavior perpetuate it?

I hate to tell you this Steffani but war does solve problems and resolve conflicts. However, where The Earth is concerned, those uninvited guests remaining here do so in the knowledge that tolerance is one of my practices - until I have a reason not to be tolerant. The list of those reasons is now as long as my leg. The right to exercise soverignity over this world is mine.


>>
>>It remains my hope that everyone will come to the realization that the 'jihad' is internal before needless further divestation is unwisely chosen. How can waging still one more war bring peace?

What a remarkably universal word. "Jihad", few would use it in this context and most would think it specific to Arabs.

>>
>>I'm sorry but for me the war was in my own mind and it is over...
>>I have made another choice.


I know.

Cal
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

07/10/00 at 1:16 pm 

Caligastia:

Alice (07/10/00 at 12:00 pm) wrote:

>>Hi all! Could someone please translate this discussion into plain English? So far it's gone all over the board. Maybe I'm having a 'stupid' day or I missed something, but what is the core issue and arguement? Stephanie, you are very eloquent, but you may need to dummy down for dummies like me!

Alice:

Steffani and I have been having a VERY extended discussion on a variety of subjects. I don't think it sinks to the level of an argument. Basically,
the dividing line between us is that she has a set of beliefs she accepts as foundational to her particular paradigm, world view and spiritual views.
I endeavor to stay away from people's belief systems and to focus on realities. Bottom line here is that my reality does not trump her chosen beliefs. In my paradigm, a belief resultant from an acquaintance with the truth is one worth having. In Steffani's, a belief resultant from a feeling, impression or another belief is the chosen paradigm.

Steffani doesn't think I understand her positioning. I reject that analysis and state that I do understand but reject that which is chosen as a belief without benefit of proof.

At issue is which is of greater value - the chosen belief or the belief which results from a known reality.

At least, this is my take on it. Steff may have her own analysis.

Cal

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

07/10/00 at 2:52 pm 

Caligastia:

The word attachment and possession could be interchangeable, the issue is degree and whom is performing the attachment on the other end and their intents.

Channelers seek out attachments. Typically, those coming from a good place do not identify themselves by name. Betty Boop from Alpha Centauri would not be deemed a viable contact. The problem with channelers (typically) is that they don't establish a means of testing to determine exactly who and what they are dealing with.

Channeling (mindlink) can be a personal and invasive thing. Few know how to defend themselves from unwanted instrusion. Others assume their contacts to be elevated and even holy. Assumations make for poor facts and one can get hurt in these endeavors. If you know what to look for, you could see that the attitude and demeanor of the person changes during the attachment becoming a different person. Sometimes, memory of the encounter is wiped and on other occasions its left. The decision rests with the other end of the link, not with the channeler.

Also, you don't typically hear a voice - more of a thought - not your own.
Although I have had Nords scream my name in my ear - audibly - testing to see if they had the right frequency setting. Its been a while since any dared that manuver. On these occasions they weren't using mindlink, but technology - communications. Better they blow out a com panel when I come back at them then get their brains rearranged.


Cal

Alice (07/10/00 at 2:34 pm) wrote:

>>
>>OK, thanks, Cal.
>>BTW, I'm not sure I'm understanding 'attachments'. Is this like a possession or partial possession? Or, is it like someone using you to 'remote view'? Or, is it like ET's hanging around in your mind? I'm confused because I believe, could be wrong, that you once mentioned attachments in reference to channelling.
>>With so many channellers out there...some are obviously scams... but many seem sincere. Do you think they are actually making contact with angels or ET's, or is this a case of delusion.
>>For myself, I have certainly felt inner promptings, but have never heard 'voices' in my head. I would probably pee my pants if I did

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

07/10/00 at 9:10 pm 

Steffani Murray:

Cal (07/10/00 at 10:24 am) wrote:

>>
>>>>
>>>>+++You Guys...always into 'scoring points' I'll give you 110% on sincerety
>>>>...but only 80% on listening...you stop at the point you perceive the other person sees the matter differently (and disagreement automatically means the 'other' has fallen into error)
>>
>>I'd disagree with your assessment and offer that the inverse may be true.
>>YOU stop listening when the other person is deemed to be in error.
>>
>>***** I do not deem others viewpoints erroneus even when I recognize that they are divergent from my own. I listen very carefully to others
especially when there perspectives are different in the hope that I may learn something new or to think about it in a new way that I hadn't considered before.
>>>>
>>>>>>+++ Well...you have chosen mostly to listen to 'Old One' channeled through Jackie rather than your TA as a source of information.
>>
>>
>>Incorrect. Don't you think I have these abilities myself? And who do you think taught Jackie how to use them? As for my TA, you make 1 BIG assumption and 1 BIG boo boo on listening or reading. I DON'T HAVE A TA.
>>
>>***** Of course I know that you have these abilities...everyone does...at least potentially. If you remember I suggested to Janey on this forum that she should give you a break in trying to decipher her disconnected visions BECAUSE you don't have a TA to 'hyperlink' the way far 'out there' stuff for you. I just think TA's are truthful accurate Sources of information for those who find themselves in mortality. Maybe Cal doesn't need one but Bob could have effectively benefitted from this ministry longer if he had so chosen.
>>
>> I remain unconvinced as to the reliability of the one over the other since I do
>>>>'believe' the TA to be an actual whole ('holy')individualized particle of
>>>>Father's Being.
>>
>>Believe as you will. when you can show me the 'particle' I'd be more impressed.

>>***** You could see it for your own self anytime you want...all you have to do is ask Father.
>>
>>It's Presence within the mind brings with It complete invulnerability... protection from the machinations of 'evil'(those who have forgotten what they are).I really don't know anyone who tries to pass themselves off as 'elevated'.
>>
>>Yes yes, I've heard this by rote repetition from the UB before. (from you - when I was listening)

>>***** I told you in person about a few discoveries that I had made about my Self long before I found the UB to explain to me what had happened in words that I could understand. Or attempt to communicate to others about this experience. If you were unable to hear me about this it doesn't mean it didn't happen... but only that there is nothing within your own realm of experience to relate to this occurence in a meaningful way. That's o.k.
I have found others who do... so it is no longer as important as during the years before I had found anyone at all to share it with who could accept the reality of my story.


>>>> I have a friend who is an astrophysicist and although I am well versed on many scientific matters for a 'layperson' there is at times a need for him to use less technical words and concepts in explaining things to me than he would in speaking with similarly educated fellow scientists for me to 'get it'. This doesn't necessarily mean that I am less intelligent
>>>>...just unfamiliar with jargon and ideas that I haven't had the opportunity to experience to that degree. This is simply a matter of common sense.
>>
>>>>Right now we have had a struggle to find words that mean enough in common for both of us to try to understand each other with mortal 'peabrains'
>>>>...do you suppose it will be easier or harder
>>>>to communicate when you 'repersonalize' and are in a completely different modality of consciousness. My interactions with 'celestial' personalities
>>>>have always been loving and positive...that is all I know based on my own experience.
>>>>
>>
>>1. I don't seem to have any trouble getting across to most people. You seem to be an exception. Mostly in that I won't learn New Age with Old One works much better.

>>***** Your interactions with Old One are telepathic mindlinks...yes?

>>2. As to your loving interactions with celestials - BS! 'all I know' is right. When all of this love is going on, I saw a different person. Even Old One drew it to your attention. For two days, I tended to your security and those with us and did so with the tacit agreement of all concerned.
>>The limit of your knowledge is the problem and your unwillingness to go beyond 'all I know'.
>>
>>3. You have the right to be used and/or manipulated if you wish. YOu can dress it up and call it elevated and celestial. Yet, in my book, its no different than being mugged in a dark alley.
>>
>>***** Amazing that you would think so...I am perfectly safe at all times.
My peace is maintained and nothing occurs without my permission. Jackie was the one who appeared to be undergoing significant distress from the 'attachment' you seemed to believe would be aimed in my direction...
that did appear to me to be an unwelcome attack on her from an 'energy' she
couldn't handle without your help. Why then does that happen to her when she lives with you under your 'security'? My trust is in Father and that which Michael taught me about 'energy projections' long ago...along the lines of whatever you send out with harmful intent eventually comes back to the sender...ergo holding harmless and helpful intent towards all beings
ensures safety and nothing else can or ever will. That is my understanding of Father's law. (love always works) Neither I nor 'the other persons' mean you any harm...you will come to realize this eventually.
>>>>
>>>>+++ The only 'adverse energy' that I encountered during the entire experience was whatever tried to convince Dennis that I would try to interfere with Father's Plan for his life. In reality I had stated that
>>>>completing his mission and being about Father's business is all that matters. Whether that misperception came from his own mind or not I cannot say.
>>>>
>>
>>Dueling spirits? I rather think that incident was the result of Dennis' subconscious recognition of the attachment issue where you were concerned.
>>His reaction was, admittedly, an over reaction and I, personally, already knew you were transporting an uninvited guest.

>>***** Not unless Dennis forgot for a moment who it is he works for and that what He says goes. The Creator of the universe and His designated consort and associates are rarely referred to as 'uninvited guests'. They
do have the right to be whereever and with whomever they wish
...nevertheless permission is duly asked for and always granted.
(even if Immanuel must put Dennis in a headlock to get it :-)

>>>>>>+++ Excuse me Dear One...wasn't intolerance and the extermination of that which was inimicable to the established order the initial problem
>>>>that has made it necessary for you to feel you have to fight for survival in the first place... >>doesn't this sort of behavior perpetuate it?
>>
>>I hate to tell you this Steffani but war does solve problems and resolve conflicts. However, where The Earth is concerned, those uninvited guests remaining here do so in the knowledge that tolerance is one of my practices - until I have a reason not to be tolerant. The list of those reasons is now as long as my leg. The right to exercise soverignity over this world is mine.
>>
>>***** For whom does war solve problems and resolve conflicts without causing more of the same only differing in forms? I'll console myself with the fact the list won't be over a yard long yet for a while ...sorry!
You need to keep in mind Dear One that until I met you in your current state last February on UBRON I thought Michael's regent was doing a jam up job as planetary prince and you were night-night beddy bye in the darkness asleep somewhere.
This is an interesting development in the Divine and no longer quite so benign X-files episodes that I seem to have wandered into to make life ever more interesting.
>>>>
>>>>It remains my hope that everyone will come to the realization that the 'jihad' is internal before needless further divestation is unwisely chosen. How can waging still one more war bring peace?
>>
>>What a remarkably universal word. "Jihad", few would use it in this context and most would think it specific to Arabs.

>>***** You would prefer the term 'holy war'? That sounds oxymoronic to me.
>>>>
>>>>I'm sorry but for me the war was in my own mind and it is over...
>>>>I have made another choice.
>>
>>
>>I know.

>>***** You have the option of joining me in making the same decision for a One Power universe NOW...
Out of time in reality Father has already won.
As a matter of fact none of this other stuff ever really happened at all.
That is the reason His Love is unconditional.

Whatever you decide...

Only Love.
Steffani

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