To clarify the author of the message, I have put their name and : after it.
5/1/2000 8:51pm
Steffani Murray:
I wonder if this is what happened in Cal's universe?
In the Beginning was the Plan
And then came the Assumptions
And the Assumptions were without form
And the Plan was completely without substance
And the darkness was upon the face of the workers
And they spoke among themselves, saying
" It is a crock of shit and it stinketh."
And the workers went into their supervisors and sayeth,
"It is a pail of dung and none may abide the odor thereof."
And the Supervisors went into their Managers and sayeth unto them,
"It is a container of excrement and it is very strong,
such that none may abide by it".
And the Managers went unto their Directors and sayeth,
" It is a vessel of fertilizer, and none may abide its strength."
And the Directors spoke among themselves, saying to one another,
" It contains that which aids plant growth and it is very strong."
And the Directors went unto the Vice Presidents and sayeth unto them,
" It promotes growth and is very powerful."
And the Vice Presidents went unto the President and sayeth unto him,
" This new plan will actively promote the growth and efficiency of this Company,and
in these areas in particular."
And the President looked upon the Plan, and saw that it was good,
And the Plan became Policy.
This is how Shit Happens.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
5/1/2000 10:48 pm
Caligastia:
Very Good Steffani - that isn't far wrong.
Here is the religious breakdown of $hit happens.
If $hit happens and you're Catholic - you deserved it.
If $hit happens and you're Protestant - let this $hit happen to someone elese.
If $hit happens and you're Jewish - Why does this $hit always happen to us.
If $hit happens and you're Hindu - This $hit has happened before.
Also, Murphy's Laws are Universal Constants and Murph is well known to the universe.
Cal
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
5/2/2000 7:10am
Steffani Murray:
Well Cal...I know that Jesus has told us that if our "eye be single the whole body
is full of light" and I believe Him.
Butt as a nurse I have had the opportunity to observe firsthand that when the asshole
stops working due to bowel obstructions from any cause the whole body is full of shit...it
is not a pretty sight or smell when bio-plumbing backs up. Sorry (you have no idea how
much) that Murph surfs the Zuvuya circuit too...but it will all come out all right in the
end I'm sure if Father gets His Way and eventually He always does. I have a whole catalog
of religions relating to shit but I'll have to look them up...
If you are in the mood for jokes you should talk to Dennis.
He has a seemingly infinite supply of real knee slappers.
Only Love. Steffani.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
5/6/2000 3:25am
Caligastia:
To: Steve
Stephanie is neck deep in the UB and has the courage to look me in the eye knowing full
well the poor things the book has to say about me. Furthermore, she's going to spend two
days in the wilderness with one some consider The Devil. The lady has guts. Her
motivations are, in my opinion,
primarily a search for truth. The Lair is an added bonus. When she leaves, she'll take
whatever opinion she formulated and do whatever she thinks is appropriate. Dennis and
David likewise are truth seekers who are going to spend a considerable amount of money and
effort just getting here. Yet, for the last two years, I've heard from you occasionally
and you're just up the block.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
5/6/2000 7:10pm
Steffani Murray:
Wow! My cable goes out for a day and lookit all the fun I miss.
Cal and all...On the mornings I wake up and find I've made a quantum leap,
I just look around for the script and read it...If it isn't interesting I just rewrite it!
No carved in granite clinging to perceptual self identities related to bodies here...they
get changed like suits of clothing. Besides there is only One of us playing lots of
roles...how easy then to love another as oneself. What a Grand Illusion...sure feels
"real"!
Sister Syrup Drip.
Hey... I'm probably lots older than Miracle and haven't had a menopausal moment yet...do
you suppose that might have anything to do with the fact I don't get my giggles by
laughing at others. Disparaging and disrespectful remarks made to anyone do not become
humor no matter how many apologetics are proffered in the aftermath. I may poke fun at a
religion or political system but not at those who espouse it.We are all Father's Kids but
we don't all always act very mature. Only Truth is True.
Jan...You did miss a gift that without Jesus in your Mind and Heart or knowing Christ
Micheal as your Father/Brother in time/space the magnitude of which you are unlikely to
fathom. Here as in every encounter with a brother is an opportunity to offer kindness and
understanding...
on a purely human level you've missed Cal's quirky sense of humor which I already
appreciate greatly. We have taken gentle potshots at each other since day one especially
over mental health and identity issues which he takes in a noticeably lighthearted manner.
I think we both enjoy silliness which is a great antidote to taking oneself too seriously.
Then again the core attitude of both parties is mutual respect and a willingness to trust
as we have this chance to get to know one another better. He doesn't have to prove
anything to me or do anything except be whoever he is. That is enough...
Only Love. Steffani.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
5/6/2000 7:16pm
Steffani Murray:
Dear Brother Dennis...You have a soul that makes YOU beautiful and wealthy beyond
measure. All you need is love and you got an infinite supply...
xox Steffani.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
5/6/2000 7:38pm
Steffani Murray:
Steve...I don't know you but sometimes it takes a lot of willingness to hear
"no" as an answer when it isn't what you want to hear. I do not hear Cal telling
you "no" as much as that the time is not yet. There is a time for need to be
fulfilled when it is no longer "need" but an assurance that the asked for is
already given. You will also know then. He has told you words of truth that "Father
has sent, directed and guided each of these people to this moment they choose to share
with me". I think we are each aware of this in the depths of our being...and this
event must unfold as planned.
Only Love, Light and Order. Steffani.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
5/7/2000 7:22am
Steffani Murray:
Hi Cinde...This (unconditional)LOVE stuff is soooo...addictive
It just feels wonderful to love and accept without judging.
There is a reason Christ Micheal as Jesus suggested that in such matters
we will receive as we have given. It has always been there to discover.
Well...it's Sunday morning and ok to do a little preaching...
Only Love (no hate...no duality) Steffani. (Meranda).
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
05/07/00 at 7:32 am
Steffani Murray:
Hi Alan...I enjoyed reading your message...but 5 times?
Brother...you REALLY wanted to get your point across.
As one who by virtue of earthplane work done is (technically)
entitled to have an opinion...I will offer to you the fact
that within the constructs of the world in psychology
the phenomenon of shared delusional systems is believed to be exceptionally rare.Thank
You. Only Love. Steffani.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
05/07/00 at 10:25 am
Steffani Murray:
Hi Cal...I realize you make a point of not being an in depth student of the UB but that
I do find it interesting reading. The first friend I ever had who admitted to being an
incarnated Son from another universe wouldn't give me the UB when I was young(18 y.o.)
because he said "they are lying about reincarnation". I should explain I
"knew" by my opening to communication the book existed. ...I could
"feel" this but I couldn't quite get the name well enough to look it up. My
friend in this earthlife was a used book dealer...it gave him a good opportunity to meet
truth seekers and other folks, too. He kept giving me other stuff as a distraction such as
Oahspe. I'd go read the other things and report back that..."Bill,this isn't the one
I'm trying to find."
It wasn't like the record store down the street didn't have a wall sized mural I asked
about and was told..."Oh, that's Urantia." I figured that was something like
Tolkien's Lord of the Rings because of the fandors and other fantasy qualities to the
picture. So when I finally did find the UB and thought back to the fact that I was quite
capable of missing messages on the wall in front of my face in those days that might have
been a good time for me not to have the book yet.
My friend was an interesting person who taught me interesting ways to access information
and send me on ...uh, little excursions when I'd whine "how do I know this isn't just
my imagination?" He told me the people on his planet evolved from reptiles (not a
fear thought for me I have always adored snakes ,turtles, and iguanas... all creatures
actually). So I asked him to show me what they looked like expecting him to draw a picture
or something.
He morphed on the spot (by projection) into a 9 foot tall turtlish type creature. This is
the first time in my life I can remember taking a deep breath and telling myself...this is
my friend no matter what he or it looks like at this moment. This was one of those real
good "sit down and shut up" types of lessons. His opinion of our local universe
Creator Son
was "He is very inexperienced". He found my devotion to "Jesus"
amusing but was never belittling about this or any matter...probably because I'm open to
learning and at the time could "sit on the fear".
Enough events like the one described and fear dissolves into trust and confidence in one's
Creator. I think I once described more benign everyday aspects of my friendship with this
person to Jan...but no matter.
I said all that to mention that the UB describes "architectural" worlds.
These are "made to order" planets to fill a particular purpose. It states that
they are "heated and lighted from within" but the beings live mostly on the
surfaces of them and the can sometimes support bio-organic life forms as well as morontial
and spiritual forms. Jerusem (P.456) is one so designated. Anyway your comments about
Nibiru as a "ship" evoked this rememberance about such worlds.
If you have time check out my response to Catherine over her's to Blackfeather over on
ESG. I think some of the stuff we talk about is possibly of sufficient interest topically
to some of the other folks to bring up here rather than "privately". I find my
more 'unusual' life experiences have merely caused me to be more tolerant and accepting
than most folks which is a valuable asset in my work settings but of course I can't talk
about this type of thing in those places.
I can reassure those burdened by inordinate guilt and shame that God loves them ...which
works well coming from a grounded certainty. I have really only had "permission"
to be openly discussing these experiences openly for the past 3 years. The internet has
helped me to find those I am meant to find...and you are one for whom I am grateful.
UBRON has helped a lot. So glad you showed up there...however briefly.
Perhaps this explains more of why I have zero consternation about flying across the
country to trek into the wilderness with someone one of my 2 favorite spiritual texts
refers to as "the devil". I was somewhat intrigued by the fact you made mention
of the fact I would be coming "out there" prior to this trip even being planned
or me having any intention of doing so. Mind control?
When we can find a common language I will understand better why some "High Guys"
with excellent service records pulled the plug on the "big happy family" of the
universe. I don't know that the man Robert Burgess can help with that one... but even on
the human level I just know that those are called (by Father) to this event will have much
to relate to one another on this adventure.
Even though "Angel's Lair" may not prove to be "Devil's Tower" and
this close encounter may be only of the human kind to all outward appearances... we will
have an interesting time to say the least. Bye Now..gotta vacate this cyberspace for some
fresh air and sunshine.
Always Only Love. Steffani.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
05/07/00 at 11:20 am
Steffani Murray:
Hi Black Feather...If you send me your e-mail I will forward you a cool post on Sitchin that showed up on UBRON. Or you could read it there as Cyntay's most recent in the list she's posted. Of course you may still be getting e-mail from UBRON but the fact your address isn't a functional one makes me think you probably don't. Either way...maybe you would be willing to share your thoughts if you do check it out. Maybe Cal will post it here but I'm not holding my breath waiting for it to show up. Later. Love. Steffani.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
| Caligastia: | 05/07/00 at 1:34 pm |
At the time I made the 'prediction' you'd be coming out, I wasn't aware I was making a prediction. It seemed a known quantity to me. It was only when you mentioned I'd made a 'prediction' that I realized the comment was made out of time.
This gives pause to bring up the issue of time. Bob lives in linear time, Cal does not. You live in linear time, yours souls do not.
Linear is a fiction, a virtual reality. While it is false in its nature, it is extremely important and has lasting effects in its consequences.
The carving of Snoopy at the Lair well highlights the point. Snoopy arrived in the 1950's, yet these carvings were made well in advance of that 'reality'. The descriptor that best applies is 'temporal engineering'.
For the line to unfold as 'written' the parties involved must be at their own temporal intersections for key moments in time so that the balance of the linear dialogue unfolds. This does not imply force or control over anyone. What it does mean is that it is a known quantity (to Father) what your choices will be. That he and others know the product and end result of how you exercise your free will is not a reduction of freewill but an expansion of it for good purposes. This is applicable to you not me.
When I accepted the parameters of my mission, I saw the line in its entirity and also accepted them. When I did, I abandoned my freewill in service to the mission objectives, Father's objectives. It will be returned to me when the service is completed. From Bob's point of linear view, this would not be so because he is 'in' the line and lacks the high ground perspective. Cal know's better.
The Arab's have a saying that relates to this, 'It is Written'. Allah (Father) is the
author. They accept this and that their own linear perceptions prevent them from an
understanding of the greater purpose.
The Christian equivalent is 'God works in mysterious ways'. In truth,
Father is as consistant as sunrise - logic of purpose. Yet, as many cultures created
godsets to explain what they didn't understand, we tend to allow to Father
rationalizations to service our own lack of understand due to our linear moment.
I was concerned, in making the invitation to you that the universal aspects would
attempt to interfere with you in a fashion to cause you some grief.
The playing field, however, was cleared by my action against them. The few that remain are
disorganized and afraid - as they should be. It is not my nature to indulge violence. Yet,
when needed I will apply sufficient force to get the job done. In this fashion, Father -
thru me, has cleared the road before you.
Satan made a comment to me before we locked him up. He stated he had come to deliberately aggravate me into an action against him. That he realized it was his place in the line (universal) to be captured. He said that he was surprised at how little prodding it took to get me flamed.
While I don't give this individual's comments great weight, one must keep perspective
on exactly whom you are talking to, I'd give the comment thought. When I attacked the
universal elements who were attacking moments in the timeline, I gave Old One a heads up
as to what I was about to do.
His comment was, "Well its about time". I was surprised in as much as I was
uncertain that he could appreciate the size and scope of the horror I was about to
inflict. I'm certain that the universal elements no longer call me planetary prince but
rather planetary butcher. Yet, my actions were done in accordance with Father's will and
in His name. These things bother me, regardless, they had to be done.
As of last week, I've extended the combativeness to temporal concerns affecting Bob. I contacted my attorney in Los Angeles and set him the task of righting an injustice that was committed against me. I'll not go into detail on this either now or later. It is sufficient to note that I have again taken up sword and that Father is with me.
Now to the average person, he would take the comment that Father is with me as a belief. Those of you who know me also understand I don't indulge beliefs but rather realities. At issue would be rather my perceptions of these things are correct. My history of being correct indicates a resounding yes.
Cal
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
05/07/00 at 9:58 pm
Steffani Murray:
Cal (05/07/00 at 1:34 pm) wrote:
>>
>>At the time I made the 'prediction' you'd be coming out, I wasn't aware I was
making a prediction. It seemed a known quantity to me. It was only when you mentioned I'd
made a 'prediction' that I realized the comment was made out of time.
>>SM*****Well...when I read it I responded that I didn't have any plan to do that
soon but that I would try to visit the next time I know I'll be in Colorado which is for
the next International UB Conference in 02. My inner thought was hummm...I wonder if he
knows something I haven't been told yet
which was apparently the case.
>>This gives pause to bring up the issue of time. Bob lives in linear time, Cal does not. You live in linear time, yours souls do not.
>>SM***** Understood.
>>Linear is a fiction, a virtual reality. While it is false in its nature, it is extremely important and has lasting effects in its consequences.
>>SM***** Being out of time is more fun though...
>>The carving of Snoopy at the Lair well highlights the point. Snoopy arrived in the 1950's, yet these carvings were made well in advance of that 'reality'. The descriptor that best applies is 'temporal engineering'.
>>SM***** Drunvalo (regardless of your opinion of him) has pointed out some
'modern' items such as a helicopter on the inner wall of an Egyptian temple that are also
interesting abberations to the temporal sequence.
>>For the line to unfold as 'written' the parties involved must be at their own
temporal intersections for key moments in time so that the balance of the linear dialogue
unfolds. This does not imply force or control over anyone. What it does mean is that it is
a known quantity (to Father) what your choices will be. That he and others know the
product and end result of how you exercise your free will is not a reduction of freewill
but an expansion of it for good purposes. This is applicable to you not me.
>>SM***** Well it is to a good purpose if and only when I have volitionally chosen to align mine with His Plan and purposes. This is when the will becomes truly free to serve the Creator of all that is.
>>When I accepted the parameters of my mission, I saw the line in its entirity and also accepted them. When I did, I abandoned my freewill in service to the mission objectives, Father's objectives. It will be returned to me when the service is completed. From Bob's point of linear view, this would not be so because he is 'in' the line and lacks the high ground perspective. Cal know's better.
>>SM*****Is not serving Father's objectives forever a reasonable plan if one intends to create peace, happiness and harmony for oneself and others?
>>The Arab's have a saying that relates to this, 'It is Written'. Allah (Father) is the author. They accept this and that their own linear perceptions prevent them from an understanding of the greater purpose.
>>SM***** yes... that would generate a containment field wouldn't it.
>>The Christian equivalent is 'God works in mysterious ways'. In truth,
>>Father is as consistant as sunrise - logic of purpose. Yet, as many cultures
created godsets to explain what they didn't understand, we tend to allow to Father
rationalizations to service our own lack of understand due to our linear moment.
>>SM***** Well it sure is a mystery until that understanding comes...
>>I was concerned, in making the invitation to you that the universal aspects would attempt to interfere with you in a fashion to cause you some grief.
>>SM***** There would be little purpose in such an attempt...
>>The playing field, however, was cleared by my action against them. The few that remain are disorganized and afraid - as they should be. It is not my nature to indulge violence. Yet, when needed I will apply sufficient force to get the job done. In this fashion, Father - thru me, has cleared the road before you.
>>SM***** It is true that Father always does clear the road before me by one means or another... but it is always my hope that all will finally choose to avoid violence by use of the Real Force and that none will ever again have to be afraid anywhere.
>>Satan made a comment to me before we locked him up. He stated he had come to deliberately aggravate me into an action against him. That he realized it was his place in the line (universal) to be captured. He said that he was surprised at how little prodding it took to get me flamed.
>>SM***** How does this guy manage to get virtually everyone provoked?
>>While I don't give this individual's comments great weight, one must keep
perspective on exactly whom you are talking to, I'd give the comment thought. When I
attacked the universal elements who were attacking moments in the timeline, I gave Old One
a heads up as to what I was about to do.
>>His comment was, "Well its about time". I was surprised in as much as I
was uncertain that he could appreciate the size and scope of the horror I was about to
inflict. I'm certain that the universal elements no longer call me planetary prince but
rather planetary butcher. Yet, my actions were done in accordance with Father's will and
in His name. These things bother me, regardless, they had to be done.
>>SM***** Ultimately it comes down to Self forgiveness...whenever someone tells
me that they have done something that "bothers" them I become concerned that
they have inflicted damage on their own being as well
as whatever harm they believe they may have caused to others.
>>As of last week, I've extended the combativeness to temporal concerns affecting
Bob. I contacted my attorney in Los Angeles and set him the task of righting an injustice
that was committed against me. I'll not go into detail on this either now or later. It is
sufficient to note that I have again taken up sword and that Father is with me.
>>SM***** It has come to my attention that this world is based on a
system of trafficing in grievances...and rarely may injustices be really righted within
its constructs. There is of course a better way ever available as you already know. Father
blesses all our doings regardless
of the means attempted if the intention is pure.
>>Now to the average person, he would take the comment that Father is with me as a belief. Those of you who know me also understand I don't indulge beliefs but rather realities. At issue would be rather my perceptions of these things are correct. My history of being correct indicates a resounding yes.
>>SM*****This personality accepts Father's Presence and blessings as a mutually shared certainty.
>>***** Love, Light and Order. Steffani. (Meranda).
>>Cal
Steffani Murray
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
05/08/00 at 1:41 am
Caligastia:
>>
>>>>SM***** Drunvalo (regardless of your opinion of him) has pointed out some
>>'modern' items such as a helicopter on the inner wall of an Egyptian temple that
are also interesting abberations to the temporal sequence.
>>
Dru, being what he is, is not without knowledge or understanding. My issues with him are those of purpose and service.There are three sides to the equation. Universe, Rebellion and Father. The universe BELIEVES they serve Father but have done so many things against the planet and its populations the proposition is preposterous. Additionally, they engineered walkins during the 70's to purpose their objectives oblivious to the fact their actions were criminal by universal law. That Dru admits to his walk in status is an obvious issue.
>>
>>>>SM*****Is not serving Father's objectives forever a reasonable plan if one
intends to create peace, happiness and harmony for oneself and others?
Clearly I chose my service. However, you allude to universal peace and harmony as a goal. I see little of this for the near future. Perhaps, ultimately. Me, I bump along day by day doing the best I can and hoping I don't trip over my own feet.
>>>>SM***** Well it sure is a mystery until that understanding comes...
To Christians it is a mystery. Muslims accept that it is written. There is a big difference between the two mentalities on the subject.
>>>>SM***** It is true that Father always does clear the road before me by one
means or another... but it is always my hope that all will finally choose to avoid
violence by use of the Real Force and that none will ever again have to be afraid
anywhere.
>>
Again, you see the end result - the journey there is to be a difficult one - for this universe anyway.
>>>>Satan made a comment to me before we locked him up. He stated he had
come to deliberately aggravate me into an action against him. That he realized it was his
place in the line (universal) to be captured. He said that he was surprised at how little
prodding it took to get me flamed.
>>
>>>>SM***** How does this guy manage to get virtually everyone provoked?
Actually, it seems universal personalities have a gift for pissing people off.
>>>>SM***** Ultimately it comes down to Self forgiveness...whenever someone
tells me that they have done something that "bothers" them I become concerned
that they have inflicted damage on their own being as well
>> as whatever harm they believe they may have caused to others.
I have nothing here to be forgiven for, least of all by myself. You are right, however,
that service of this nature does leave scars. You file this under, 'if you can't stand the
heat - get outta the kitchen'
>>
>>>>As of last week, I've extended the combativeness to temporal concerns
affecting Bob. I contacted my attorney in Los Angeles and set him the task of righting an
injustice that was committed against me. I'll not go into detail on this either now or
later. It is sufficient to note that I have again taken up sword and that Father is with
me.
>>
>>>>SM***** It has come to my attention that this world is based on a
>>system of trafficing in grievances...and rarely may injustices be really righted
within its constructs.
This is a correct perception if one keeps in mind that courts are not in the business of justice. Justice can be had if it is one's goal and is pursued with reason WITH reasonable parties. Courts dispense money, not justice and grievances are not really addressed. The assumption is that the money balances out the scales and that justice is somehow achieved.
There is of course a better way ever available as you already know. Father blesses all our
doings regardless of the means attempted if the intention is pure.
I can't say I agree with this. In a freewill society, Father tends to sit back. First hand intervention is EXTREMELY rare. Earth is one of those extremely rare exceptions. The truth is that there was no safe place within the universe to hide certain things. The only truly safe place was with Father himself. Thus, to impliment the engineering, Father HAD TO HAVE a first hand participatory role.
Now, from a spiritual point of view, I would be in more agreement.
Cal
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
05/08/00 at 11:04 pm
Steffani Murray:
Cal (05/08/00 at 1:41 am) wrote:
>>
>>>>
>>>>>>SM***** Drunvalo (regardless of your opinion of him) has pointed
out some
>>>>'modern' items such as a helicopter on the inner wall of an Egyptian
temple that are also interesting abberations to the temporal sequence.
>>>>
>>
>>Dru, being what he is, is not without knowledge or understanding. My issues with
him are those of purpose and service.There are three sides to the equation. Universe,
Rebellion and Father. The universe BELIEVES they serve Father but have done so many things
against the planet and its populations the proposition is preposterous. Additionally, they
engineered walkins during the 70's to purpose their objectives oblivious to the fact their
actions were criminal by universal law. That Dru admits to his walk in status is an
obvious issue.
>>
>>88888SM Did it require walk-in status to notice the chopper on the wall at Abydos?
did they believe they serve Father's purpose in doing so and had Creator's permission?
>>>>
>>>>>>SM*****Is not serving Father's objectives forever a reasonable
plan if one intends to create peace, happiness and harmony for oneself and others?
>>
>>Clearly I chose my service. However, you allude to universal peace and harmony as
a goal. I see little of this for the near future. Perhaps, ultimately. Me, I bump along
day by day doing the best I can and hoping I don't trip over my own feet.
>>88888SM One foot in front of the other is a good plan in serving Father.
Also expedient is holding an out of time perspective of Light and Life as a long range
project in eternal completed perfection as held in His Mind.
This gives a sense of meaning and purpose to the day to day trudge along.
>>
>>>>>>SM***** Well it sure is a mystery until that understanding
comes...
>>
>>To Christians it is a mystery. Muslims accept that it is written. There is a big
difference between the two mentalities on the subject.
>>88888SM The religious mentalities are ever a perplexion to me...
>>
>>>>>>SM***** It is true that Father always does clear the road
before me by one means or another... but it is always my hope that all will finally choose
to avoid violence by use of the Real Force and that none will ever again have to be afraid
anywhere.
>>>>
>>
>>Again, you see the end result - the journey there is to be a difficult one - for
this universe anyway.
88888SM Ah Yes...One mind and heart at a time... and there are so very many of them.
The only way out of it is through it. I try to hold Spirit's
vision not that of the limited mortal perceptual identity. It is good to rest in certainty
of Father's ability to accomplish His Will and Purposes.
>>
>>>>>>Satan made a comment to me before we locked him up. He stated
he had come to deliberately aggravate me into an action against him. That he realized it
was his place in the line (universal) to be captured. He said that he was surprised at how
little prodding it took to get me flamed.
>>>>
>>>>>>SM***** How does this guy manage to get virtually everyone
provoked?
>>
>>
>>Actually, it seems universal personalities have a gift for pissing people off.
>>88888SM Satan is not a personality I would have considered as universal at this
point...seems a bit of a switcheroo from the UB story?
>>
>>>>>>SM***** Ultimately it comes down to Self forgiveness...whenever
someone tells me that they have done something that "bothers" them I become
concerned that they have inflicted damage on their own being as well
>>>> as whatever harm they believe they may have caused to others.
>>
>>
>>I have nothing here to be forgiven for, least of all by myself. You are right,
however, that service of this nature does leave scars. You file this under, 'if you can't
stand the heat - get outta the kitchen'
>>
>>
>>88888SM If the heat stays on so long that the kitchen catches fire and burns down
one can no longer cook in that location. Burn scars are really ugly and make skin thick
and inflexible too.
>>>>>>As of last week, I've extended the combativeness to temporal
concerns affecting Bob. I contacted my attorney in Los Angeles and set him the task of
righting an injustice that was committed against me. I'll not go into detail on this
either now or later. It is sufficient to note that I have again taken up sword and that
Father is with me.
>>>>88888SM Didn't Someone well known say something to the effect of he who
takes up the sword just gets more of the same until it kills him?
Or was it the Beatles with the Sue Me Sue You Blues...
>>>>>>SM***** It has come to my attention that this world is based on a
>>>>system of trafficing in grievances...and rarely may injustices be really
righted within its constructs.
>>
>>This is a correct perception if one keeps in mind that courts are not in the
business of justice. Justice can be had if it is one's goal and is pursued with reason
WITH reasonable parties. Courts dispense money, not justice and grievances are not really
addressed. The assumption is that the money balances out the scales and that justice is
somehow achieved.
>>88888SM How many "reasonable parties" can one expect to encounter in
that kind of scenario?
>>
>> There is of course a better way ever available as you already know. Father
blesses all our doings regardless of the means attempted if the intention is pure.
>>
>>I can't say I agree with this. In a freewill society, Father tends to sit back.
First hand intervention is EXTREMELY rare. Earth is one of those extremely rare
exceptions. The truth is that there was no safe place within the universe to hide certain
things. The only truly safe place was with Father himself. Thus, to impliment the
engineering, Father HAD TO HAVE a first hand participatory role.
>>
>>Now, from a spiritual point of view, I would be in more agreement.
>>88888SM The spiritual point of view is the better way envisioned. Wouldn't you
consider the TA's a direct intervention by Their mere
Presence hidden in the mind of their subjects?
Only Love (take 3) Steffani.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
05/08/00 at 11:30 pm
Caligastia:
>>>>88888SM Did it require walk-in status to notice the chopper on the wall
at Abydos?
As I said, he is not without some ability.
I thought the universe is loathe to violate their own rules...
They are loathe to be caught violating their own rules. There comes a point where redefining 'is' doesn't cut it anymore.
>>did they believe they serve Father's purpose in doing so and had Creator's
permission?
>>>>>>
Humans call this particular rationalization 'choosing between two evils'.
Of course the universe defines the greater evil as that which will not bend knee before
their miscreance. This sort of move is one of the advantages of being a government.
>>Also expedient is holding an out of time perspective of Light and Life as a
long range project in eternal completed perfection as held in His Mind.
>>This gives a sense of meaning and purpose to the day to day trudge along.
>>>>
Agreed. Once perspective is lost, so also is the purpose of it all.
>>>>88888SM Satan is not a personality I would have considered as universal at
this point...seems a bit of a switcheroo from the UB story?
Satan spawns from the universe. A point of origin and a basis for the understanding of a
mentality. However, consider this perspective. He just might be doing his job - poor
though it may be.
>>>>
>>>>I have nothing here to be forgiven for, least of all by myself. You are
right, however, that service of this nature does leave scars. You file this under, 'if you
can't stand the heat - get outta the kitchen'
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>88888SM If the heat stays on so long that the kitchen catches fire and
burns down one can no longer cook in that location. Burn scars are really ugly and make
skin thick and inflexible too.
>>
>>
>>>>>>>>As of last week, I've extended the combativeness to
temporal concerns affecting Bob. I contacted my attorney in Los Angeles and set him the
task of righting an injustice that was committed against me. I'll not go into detail on
this either now or later. It is sufficient to note that I have again taken up sword and
that Father is with me.
>>
>>
>>>>>>88888SM Didn't Someone well known say something to the effect of
he who takes up the sword just gets more of the same until it kills him?
>>Or was it the Beatles with the Sue Me Sue You Blues...
>>
He who lives by the sword dies by the sword - Jesus - not the Beatles:)
unless you've been getting your music from strange places.
>>
>>>>>>>>SM***** It has come to my attention that this world is
based on a
>>>>>>system of trafficing in grievances...and rarely may injustices be
really righted within its constructs.
>>>>
>>>>This is a correct perception if one keeps in mind that courts are not in
the business of justice. Justice can be had if it is one's goal and is pursued with reason
WITH reasonable parties. Courts dispense money, not justice and grievances are not really
addressed. The assumption is that the money balances out the scales and that justice is
somehow achieved.
>>
>>
>>>>88888SM How many "reasonable parties" can one expect to
encounter in that kind of scenario?
Few I would say. However, Chuck Colson (one of Nixon's boys) used to keep a plague on his office wall that said, "When you have em by the balls, their hearts and minds will follow". I find that holding the high ground inspires many to reason.
>>>>
>>>> There is of course a better way ever available as you already know.
Father blesses all our doings regardless of the means attempted if the intention is pure.
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>I can't say I agree with this. In a freewill society, Father tends to sit
back. First hand intervention is EXTREMELY rare. Earth is one of those extremely rare
exceptions. The truth is that there was no safe place within the universe to hide certain
things. The only truly safe place was with Father himself. Thus, to impliment the
engineering, Father HAD TO HAVE a first hand participatory role.
>>>>
>>>>Now, from a spiritual point of view, I would be in more agreement.
>>
>>
>>>>88888SM The spiritual point of view is the better way envisioned. Wouldn't
you consider the TA's a direct intervention by Their mere
>>Presence hidden in the mind of their subjects?
>>
I have a different perspective on TA's than you do, and I've noted you have a tendency
to allow them more than they really have and really do. My former TA is a leader amongst
her people and had never been to six or before Father. In the day to day course of events,
TA's are doing their job with subtle interventions in the way of suggestions many ignore.
Interventions from Father tend to be much more noticable and frequently
can come directly from Him.
The UB's diatribe glorifies the TA without telling you how low a caste they are in the universal pecking order. Nor do they tell you that the Adams' and Eves are 16th level angels - just barely angelic.
Here again, perspective holds value.
Cal
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
05/09/00 at 10:35 pm
Steffani Murray:
Cal (05/08/00 at 11:30 pm) wrote:
>>
>>>>>>88888SM Did it require walk-in status to notice the chopper on the
wall at Abydos?
>>
>>As I said, he is not without some ability.
>>
>>I thought the universe is loathe to violate their own rules...
>>
>>They are loathe to be caught violating their own rules. There comes a point where
redefining 'is' doesn't cut it anymore.
>>
+++++Redefining 'IS'? What a truly amazing idea...
>>
>>>>did they believe they serve Father's purpose in doing so and had Creator's
permission?
>>>>>>>>
>>
>>Humans call this particular rationalization 'choosing between two evils'.
>>Of course the universe defines the greater evil as that which will not bend knee
before their miscreance. This sort of move is one of the advantages of being a government.
>>
+++++Making a Divinely rational choice to see no evil... one may be nonetheless required
to observe many irrational behaviors on the part of individuals as well as governments
prior to overlooking them. As in "don't sweat the small stuff" and everything
that seems to be happening in time/space evolutionary universes other than Love's
manifestation is not only small but nonexistent from an eternal perspective. I think I
have heard this expressed as "if it ain't Love it ain't Real".
>>
>>>>Also expedient is holding an out of time perspective of Light and Life
as a long range project in eternal completed perfection as held in His Mind.
>>>>This gives a sense of meaning and purpose to the day to day trudge along.
>>>>>>
>>
>>Agreed. Once perspective is lost, so also is the purpose of it all.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>>>>88888SM Satan is not a personality I would have considered as
universal at this point...seems a bit of a switcheroo from the UB story?
>>
>>
>>Satan spawns from the universe. A point of origin and a basis for the
understanding of a mentality. However, consider this perspective. He just might be doing
his job - poor though it may be.
>>
+++++Everyone "spawns" from the universe...where else is there to spawn from?
All of the Beings who are now on the UB's shitlist of rebellious personalities functioned
within its' constructs until a moment ago from any eternal Being's perspective. To the
Supreme Being these matters are probably viewed with all the significance of boys having a
snowball fight in the schoolyard. I do remain unclear as to the function of engineering a
"separation". No doubt because I'm trying to reconstuct what occurred with the
finite mortal peabrain and key pieces of the equation are still absent. Satan as Lucifer's
#1 theoretically might just be doing his job.
As our Creator Son demonstrated so well during His mortal incarnation as Jesus one can be
virtually perfectly behaved and still manage to be perceived as blasphemous, crazy, and
keeping company with sinners and
"the Prince of the Devils" not only by strangers but sometimes by family
members. He pissed off enough "high ranking" people who fancied themselves
sufficiently important and insulted by His mere existence to warrant murder by torture. By
living as a human I am having an excellent opportunity to understand insanity from the
inside out even as He did.
I appreciate the fact He did this first so that I may understand it in the Light of shared
experience. Human perceptions are unstable, unreasonable
and capricious...hardly a sufficient basis for making good decisions in-
volving 'free will'. I cannot help thinking that evolutionary
animal origin is a significant handicap to making spiritual progress.
>>
>>>>>>I have nothing here to be forgiven for, least of all by myself.
You are right, however, that service of this nature does leave scars. You file this under,
'if you can't stand the heat - get outta the kitchen'
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>88888SM If the heat stays on so long that the kitchen catches fire
and burns down one can no longer cook in that location. Burn scars are really ugly and
make skin thick and inflexible too.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>As of last week, I've extended the combativeness
to temporal concerns affecting Bob. I contacted my attorney in Los Angeles and set him the
task of righting an injustice that was committed against me. I'll not go into detail on
this either now or later. It is sufficient to note that I have again taken up sword and
that Father is with me.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>>88888SM Didn't Someone well known say something to the
effect of he who takes up the sword just gets more of the same until it kills him?
>>>>Or was it the Beatles with the Sue Me Sue You Blues...
>>>>
>>
>>He who lives by the sword dies by the sword - Jesus - not the Beatles:)
>>unless you've been getting your music from strange places.
+++++ I knew that...I just wanted to see if you did.
I do get my music from very strange places...
I hear Jesus, the Beatles, and the Heavenly Angels singing
" All You Need is Love " in 3 point harmony!
>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>SM***** It has come to my attention that this
world is based on a
>>>>>>>>system of trafficing in grievances...and rarely may
injustices be really righted within its constructs.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>This is a correct perception if one keeps in mind that courts are
not in the business of justice. Justice can be had if it is one's goal and is pursued with
reason WITH reasonable parties. Courts dispense money, not justice and grievances are not
really addressed. The assumption is that the money balances out the scales and that
justice is somehow achieved.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>88888SM How many "reasonable parties" can one expect to
encounter in that kind of scenario?
>>
>>Few I would say. However, Chuck Colson (one of Nixon's boys) used to keep a plague
on his office wall that said, "When you have em by the balls, their hearts and minds
will follow". I find that holding the high ground inspires many to reason.
>>+++++Yes...and I have a copy of a saying on the plaque on the wall of Dr. Bob's
office ( one of A A's founding fathers) on the inspiring topic of humility. I try to read
at least once daily and take it to heart but there are days I truly wonder how long it
will take me to "be there".
Perhaps a secure grasp on the family jewels is the only way that sort of crew could be
escorted to the higher ground of reason until the minds and hearts find their way up
there.
>>>>>> There is of course a better way ever available as you already
know. Father blesses all our doings regardless of the means attempted if the intention is
pure.
>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>I can't say I agree with this. In a freewill society, Father tends
to sit back. First hand intervention is EXTREMELY rare. Earth is one of those extremely
rare exceptions. The truth is that there was no safe place within the universe to hide
certain things. The only truly safe place was with Father himself. Thus, to impliment the
engineering, Father HAD TO HAVE a first hand participatory role.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Now, from a spiritual point of view, I would be in more agreement.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>88888SM The spiritual point of view is the better way envisioned.
Wouldn't you consider the TA's a direct intervention by Their mere
>>>>Presence hidden in the mind of their subjects?
>>>>
>>
>>I have a different perspective on TA's than you do, and I've noted you have a
tendency to allow them more than they really have and really do. My former TA is a leader
amongst her people and had never been to six or before Father. In the day to day course of
events, TA's are doing their job with subtle interventions in the way of suggestions many
ignore. Interventions from Father tend to be much more noticable and frequently
>>can come directly from Him.
>>
>>The UB's diatribe glorifies the TA without telling you how low a caste they are in
the universal pecking order. Nor do they tell you that the Adams' and Eves are 16th level
angels - just barely angelic.
>>
>>Here again, perspective holds value.
>>
+++++ Yep...no way around this one. I do look at the TA in a very different
way. As the actual individuated prepersonal Spirit that is Father's Gift of His own
Being...and fusion with It as the means of ascendancy for a particular order of created
sons...as in TA's is Us if we really exist as potentially immortal personalities rather
than quasi-sentient animals.
+++++Adams and Eves are material Sons...reproducing by sexual rather than
projective means. Just barely angelic seems an appropriate description.
++++++Have you ever considered the idea that all life forms are simply whatever
they are in a non-hierarchical manner...not 'higher or lower' or 'better or worse' merely
differing and then letting go of preferences? Making a practice of appreciating Creator's
authorship of His creatures...like telling an artist or poet how meaningful their work is
to you? Not that Father would need anything back from us but the effort to seek His
Presence seems the most worthy offering a Son can give to Him . Jesus demonstrated
communion with the Paradise Father as a pattern. Considering the vast gulf between His
perfection and human imperfection He must have given us a practical means to fellowship
with Him. Father's own indwelling Spirit and the Creator Son's Spirit of Truth are the
means provided to make the impossible possible. So you are correct that I esteem my TA as
that with which I AM in primary relationship.
+++++ Way too much verbiage from me! I am so glad we can disagree without being
monstrously disagreeable.
Only Love.(again) Steffani.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
05/09/00 at 11:40 pm
Caligastia:
>>+++++Making a Divinely rational choice to see no evil... one may be nonetheless required to observe many irrational behaviors on the part of individuals as well as governments prior to overlooking them.
So then, you'd have people choose to be blind, deaf, dumb and stupid in the service of a
'divinely rational choice'? This seems the opposite extreme of the universe fascist and
totalitarian meglomania.
As in "don't sweat the small stuff" and everything that seems to be happening in
time/space evolutionary universes other than Love's manifestation is not only small but
nonexistent from an eternal perspective. I think I have heard this expressed as "if
it ain't Love it ain't Real".
>>>>
>>
This last comment makes me think of a phrase, "You're gonna love each other EVEN IF IT KILLS YOU". I agree with not sweating the little things.
>>>>>>Also expedient is holding an out of time perspective of Light and
Life as a long range project in eternal completed perfection as held in His Mind.
You've hit upon a point here. What makes you think the universe HAS an out of time perspective? They do where mortality is concerned because they can look down into the line. Yet, from their own level, they're as blind as we are doing linear.
>>>>>>>>88888SM Satan is not a personality I would have considered
as universal at this point...seems a bit of a switcheroo from the UB story?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Satan spawns from the universe. A point of origin and a basis for the
understanding of a mentality. However, consider this perspective. He just might be doing
his job - poor though it may be.
>>>>
>>+++++Everyone "spawns" from the universe...where else is there to spawn
from?
Incorrect. Those born of earth, spawned from earth. The mortal soul here had no existence before earth - thus, they did not spawn FROM the universe.
>>All of the Beings who are now on the UB's shitlist of rebellious personalities
functioned within its' constructs until a moment ago from any eternal Being's perspective.
To the Supreme Being these matters are probably viewed with all the significance of boys
having a snowball fight in the schoolyard.
Not so. This is not a schoolyard pissing contest. The fate of six universes hangs in the balance and is centered on what happens here on Earth.
I do remain unclear as to the function of engineering a "separation". No doubt
because I'm trying to reconstuct what occurred with the finite mortal peabrain and key
pieces of the equation are still absent. Satan as Lucifer's #1 theoretically might just be
doing his job.
>>As our Creator Son demonstrated so well during His mortal incarnation as Jesus one
can be virtually perfectly behaved and still manage to be perceived as blasphemous, crazy,
and keeping company with sinners and
>>"the Prince of the Devils" not only by strangers but sometimes by family
>>members. He pissed off enough "high ranking" people who fancied
themselves sufficiently important and insulted by His mere existence to warrant murder by
torture. By living as a human I am having an excellent opportunity to understand insanity
from the inside out even as He did.
>>I appreciate the fact He did this first so that I may understand it in the Light
of shared experience. Human perceptions are unstable, unreasonable
>>and capricious.
I disagree. Human motivations are as predictable as sunrise IF you understand the causal agents. Ironically, the same psyche exists in the universe.
..hardly a sufficient basis for making good decisions in-
>>volving 'free will'. I cannot help thinking that evolutionary
>>animal origin is a significant handicap to making spiritual progress.
>>
Again, I disagree. The imposition of intellect over animal instincts is a key factor and first step on the road to ascendancy.
>>>>
>>>>>>>>I have nothing here to be forgiven for, least of all by
myself. You are right, however, that service of this nature does leave scars. You file
this under, 'if you can't stand the heat - get outta the kitchen'
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>88888SM If the heat stays on so long that the kitchen
catches fire and burns down one can no longer cook in that location. Burn scars are really
ugly and make skin thick and inflexible too.
>>>>>>
Then you live with it. such is the acceptance of 'thy will be done'
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>As of last week, I've extended the
combativeness to temporal concerns affecting Bob. I contacted my attorney in Los Angeles
and set him the task of righting an injustice that was committed against me. I'll not go
into detail on this either now or later. It is sufficient to note that I have again taken
up sword and that Father is with me.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>88888SM Didn't Someone well known say something to
the effect of he who takes up the sword just gets more of the same until it kills him?
>>>>>>Or was it the Beatles with the Sue Me Sue You Blues...
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>He who lives by the sword dies by the sword - Jesus - not the Beatles:)
>>>>unless you've been getting your music from strange places.
>>
>>+++++ I knew that...I just wanted to see if you did.
>>I do get my music from very strange places...
>>I hear Jesus, the Beatles, and the Heavenly Angels singing
>>" All You Need is Love " in 3 point harmony!
>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>SM***** It has come to my attention that
this world is based on a
>>>>>>>>>>system of trafficing in grievances...and rarely
may injustices be really righted within its constructs.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>This is a correct perception if one keeps in mind that
courts are not in the business of justice. Justice can be had if it is one's goal and is
pursued with reason WITH reasonable parties. Courts dispense money, not justice and
grievances are not really addressed. The assumption is that the money balances out the
scales and that justice is somehow achieved.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>88888SM How many "reasonable parties" can one
expect to encounter in that kind of scenario?
>>>>
>>>>Few I would say. However, Chuck Colson (one of Nixon's boys) used to keep
a plague on his office wall that said, "When you have em by the balls, their hearts
and minds will follow". I find that holding the high ground inspires many to reason.
>>
>>
>>>>+++++Yes...and I have a copy of a saying on the plaque on the wall of Dr.
Bob's office ( one of A A's founding fathers) on the inspiring topic of humility. I try to
read at least once daily and take it to heart but there are days I truly wonder how long
it will take me to "be there".
>>Perhaps a secure grasp on the family jewels is the only way that sort of crew
could be escorted to the higher ground of reason until the minds and hearts find their way
up there.
>>
In this instance, I find motivations of less importance than the doing.
On the subject of plaques, a friend - knowing I am given to extreme focus when in a conflict - gave me a plaque that hung over my desk and which I did read daily.
Those who fight monsters should see to it that in the process they themselves do not become a monster and when you look into the abyss, it also looks into you.
I took it as reminder and a warning not to become that which you stand against.
>>>>>>>> There is of course a better way ever available as you
already know. Father blesses all our doings regardless of the means attempted if the
intention is pure.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>I can't say I agree with this. In a freewill society,
Father tends to sit back. First hand intervention is EXTREMELY rare. Earth is one of those
extremely rare exceptions. The truth is that there was no safe place within the universe
to hide certain things. The only truly safe place was with Father himself. Thus, to
impliment the engineering, Father HAD TO HAVE a first hand participatory role.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Now, from a spiritual point of view, I would be in more
agreement.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>88888SM The spiritual point of view is the better way
envisioned. Wouldn't you consider the TA's a direct intervention by Their mere
>>>>>>Presence hidden in the mind of their subjects?
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>I have a different perspective on TA's than you do, and I've noted you
have a tendency to allow them more than they really have and really do. My former TA is a
leader amongst her people and had never been to six or before Father. In the day to day
course of events, TA's are doing their job with subtle interventions in the way of
suggestions many ignore. Interventions from Father tend to be much more noticable and
frequently
>>>>can come directly from Him.
>>>>
>>>>The UB's diatribe glorifies the TA without telling you how low a caste
they are in the universal pecking order. Nor do they tell you that the Adams' and Eves are
16th level angels - just barely angelic.
>>>>
>>>>Here again, perspective holds value.
>>>>
>>
>>+++++ Yep...no way around this one. I do look at the TA in a very different
>>way. As the actual individuated prepersonal Spirit that is Father's Gift of His
own Being...and fusion with It as the means of ascendancy for a particular order of
created sons...as in TA's is Us if we really exist as potentially immortal personalities
rather than quasi-sentient animals.
>>
You achieved immortality the moment you were given a soul. I do hope you don't talk like this in person:)
>>+++++Adams and Eves are material Sons...reproducing by sexual rather than
>>projective means. Just barely angelic seems an appropriate description.
>>
>>++++++Have you ever considered the idea that all life forms are simply whatever
>>they are in a non-hierarchical manner...not 'higher or lower' or 'better or worse'
merely differing and then letting go of preferences?
THAT!!!!! was Lucifer's original point!!!
It is the universal government that separates us, categorizes us and attempts to quantify us.
Making a practice of appreciating Creator's authorship of His creatures...like telling an artist or poet how meaningful their work is to you?
I'd rather allow each their own perceptions instead of imposing a state sponsered Melchezidek doctrine.
Not that Father would need anything back from us but the effort to seek His Presence seems
the most worthy offering a Son can give to Him . Jesus demonstrated communion with the
Paradise Father as a pattern. Considering the vast gulf between His perfection and human
imperfection He must have given us a practical means to fellowship with Him.
Methinks you have a tendency to overthink a subject. If you wish to know Father or Son's motivations - ASK THEM. Otherwise, you have theological and philsophical speculations you attribute to them. High inappropriate in my opinion.
Father's own indwelling Spirit
Father IS the spirit. He can't have an indwelling spirit.
and the Creator Son's Spirit of Truth are the means provided to make the impossible possible. So you are correct that I esteem my TA as that with which I AM in primary relationship.
Perhaps it a position of familiarty with the Son which enables me to a different perspective than you possess. You seem in need of an object of worship AND the Son is indeed entitled to it. I see him as a person with a job. Sometimes a good job, and sometimes a poor one. There is a carving at the Lair of a boy who carries a lizard on his back. A child who carries the weight of a universe much as I carry the responsibility for Earth.
While both of our views are, in actuality, correct - I think mine holds the person of the Son in greater perspective.
I'll ask you, when you come here - if I suitably impress you that 1. the UB is wrong where I am concerned and 2. that I am truly in Father's service, are you going to deify me? I have been called the god of the Earth in the old testament and summary deification was granted many times over the course of history. Or will you see me as a person with a job and relate to me as a man - one of many men. A similar vision of The Son would be appropriate. On one hand you site Lucifer's doctrine of equality and then turn around and ignore it as it applies to the higest of us. Thus, you perpetuate the very separations that you say you don't care for.
If it serves you purpose to believe there is a direct and divine connection between Father
and your TA - by all means - stick with it. I tell you though, it is not as you present
it. Few Ta's have ever had a direct link with Father. Your own soul is a much better
'link' than attempting to use a TA as an intermediary. Furthermore, were you to have
audience with Father, your TA would be excluded from it.
This fact speaks for itself.
Cal
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
05/10/00 at 4:16 pm
Steffani Murray:
Cal (05/09/00 at 11:40 pm) wrote:
>>
>>>>+++++Making a Divinely rational choice to see no evil... one may be
nonetheless required to observe many irrational behaviors on the part of individuals as
well as governments prior to overlooking them.
>>
>>
>>So then, you'd have people choose to be blind, deaf, dumb and stupid in the
service of a 'divinely rational choice'? This seems the opposite extreme of the universe
fascist and totalitarian meglomania.
>>
>>####### Nope. I would not have "people" be other than who they
choose to be. This decision is only for Me...not me.
In the day to day life on the planet I shovel my full quota of
uh..."fertilizer" and many days even more.
It is by holding onto the "above the battleground" perspective
while going through it that I can avoid getting caught up in it.
>>As in "don't sweat the small stuff" and everything that seems to be
happening in time/space evolutionary universes other than Love's manifestation is not only
small but nonexistent from an eternal perspective. I think I have heard this expressed as
"if it ain't Love it ain't Real".
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>
>>This last comment makes me think of a phrase, "You're gonna love each other
EVEN IF IT KILLS YOU". I agree with not sweating the little things.
>>
####### Love is the only Reality I acknowledge...at least from
Higher Ground. In daily living and interactions with "others"
it surely will "kill" the little false self that arrogantly
confuses itself with Me. Anyone who mistakes meekness for
weakness to the point of attempting to "run a game" is usually
confounded by the result. This is usually an entertaining lesson
for all involved and quite harmless. I do meet a few who believe
that because "winning through intimidation" works on the streets
it will be effective in getting what they think they want in a
different setting. Often finding there is a better alternative
available than they dreamed of or imagined and that another actually does have their
interests at heart without being "forced" to initiates an attitudinal reversal
that may actually have lasting consequences.
>>
>>>>>>>>Also expedient is holding an out of time perspective of
Light and Life as a long range project in eternal completed perfection as held in His
Mind.
>>
>>You've hit upon a point here. What makes you think the universe HAS an out of time
perspective? They do where mortality is concerned because they can look down into the
line. Yet, from their own level, they're as blind as we are doing linear.
>>
>>#######The word universe to me means mostly an astronomical "domain"
within the cosmos not the viewpoint of the beings living in it.
If you interpret my usage to mean the "political dominion"
of a hierarchical structure this at times seems to be confusing
our attempts at communication. I will in the future to try
to clarify the meaning I intend for the term if not crystal
crystal clear by context.
>>
>>
>>>>>>>>>>88888SM Satan is not a personality I would have
considered as universal at this point...seems a bit of a switcheroo from the UB story?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Satan spawns from the universe. A point of origin and a basis for
the understanding of a mentality. However, consider this perspective. He just might be
doing his job - poor though it may be.
>>>>>>
>>>>+++++Everyone "spawns" from the universe...where else is there
to spawn from?
>>
>>Incorrect. Those born of earth, spawned from earth. The mortal soul here had no
existence before earth - thus, they did not spawn FROM the universe.
>>
>>
####### I can see here a good example of my usage being confusing.
I did mean the "political" context in speaking of Satan as
a personality...then I jumped right into using it to mean
the entire cosmos in which this and all planets are located
in the very next sentence. Apology for obfuscating my own
point respectfully extended. Do you then refer to those mortal
souls having Urth as their evolutionary home world as not
being "spawned from the universe" because the 'declaration
of succession' removed this sphere from the dominion of the
existing universe government?
>>>>All of the Beings who are now on the UB's shitlist of rebellious
personalities functioned within its' constructs until a moment ago from any eternal
Being's perspective. To the Supreme Being these matters are probably viewed with all the
significance of boys having a snowball fight in the schoolyard.
>>
>>Not so. This is not a schoolyard pissing contest. The fate of six universes hangs
in the balance and is centered on what happens here on Earth.
>>
####### My trust in Michael of Nebadon to implement Father's Will in all
that is given to Him to accomplish is total. As His final
bestowal world and personal 'ward' this planet's role in
fulfilling it's designated function perfectly is a given.
May Father forgive me for saying this but whether you or Mac
consider yourself the 'rightful' interim ruler of this colorful
small decimal world is an interesting situation.It has
the potential for nondestructive resolution which even I in my
present condition can envision. This one is a very temporal
solvable problem. In fact there are statements that you have
made to me that indicate this is an issue that has already
been worked out between you guys. I do hope that this is so.
>>
>> I do remain unclear as to the function of engineering a "separation".
No doubt because I'm trying to reconstuct what occurred with the finite mortal peabrain
and key pieces of the equation are still absent. Satan as Lucifer's #1 theoretically might
just be doing his job.
>>>>As our Creator Son demonstrated so well during His mortal incarnation as
Jesus one can be virtually perfectly behaved and still manage to be perceived as
blasphemous, crazy, and keeping company with sinners and
>>>>"the Prince of the Devils" not only by strangers but sometimes
by family
>>>>members. He pissed off enough "high ranking" people who fancied
themselves sufficiently important and insulted by His mere existence to warrant murder by
torture. By living as a human I am having an excellent opportunity to understand insanity
from the inside out even as He did.
>>>>I appreciate the fact He did this first so that I may understand it in the
Light of shared experience. Human perceptions are unstable, unreasonable
>>>>and capricious.
>>
>>I disagree. Human motivations are as predictable as sunrise IF you understand the
causal agents. Ironically, the same psyche exists in the universe.
>>
>>####### I do agree complete about motivations. When I speak of
'perceptions' I refer more to the lens through which
circumstances around situations or persons form into opinions
that can be altered by 'spin'... and used by the unscrupulous
to manipulate and control anyone who abnegates the responsi-
bility to think for himself. Humans to my observation are
disinclined to utilize the option of waiting until they have
enough information to form a reasonable opinion prior to making
one.
>>..hardly a sufficient basis for making good decisions in-
>>>>volving 'free will'. I cannot help thinking that evolutionary
>>>>animal origin is a significant handicap to making spiritual progress.
>>>>
>>
>>Again, I disagree. The imposition of intellect over animal instincts is a key
factor and first step on the road to ascendancy.
>>
>>####### Sure...but some one who starts out as say a seraphim doesn't
have to deal with climbing out of the primordial ooze to even
begin setting out on the road to ascendancy. Yes...I know...
By my own ideas I should be pleased to be in whatever state
I seem to find myself... and someday I will be so
grateful to have been priviledged to have had the opportunity
to be sentient goo...in fact I may have earnestly sought out
the chance to do this
but I really can't remember right now.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>I have nothing here to be forgiven for, least of
all by myself. You are right, however, that service of this nature does leave scars. You
file this under, 'if you can't stand the heat - get outta the kitchen'
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>88888SM If the heat stays on so long that the
kitchen catches fire and burns down one can no longer cook in that location. Burn scars
are really ugly and make skin thick and inflexible too.
>>>>>>>>
>>
>>Then you live with it. such is the acceptance of 'thy will be done'
>>####### Yes!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>As of last week, I've extended the
combativeness to temporal concerns affecting Bob. I contacted my attorney in Los Angeles
and set him the task of righting an injustice that was committed against me. I'll not go
into detail on this either now or later. It is sufficient to note that I have again taken
up sword and that Father is with me.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>88888SM Didn't Someone well known say
something to the effect of he who takes up the sword just gets more of the same until it
kills him?
>>>>>>>>Or was it the Beatles with the Sue Me Sue You Blues...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>He who lives by the sword dies by the sword - Jesus - not the
Beatles:)
>>>>>>unless you've been getting your music from strange places.
>>>>
>>>>+++++ I knew that...I just wanted to see if you did.
>>>>I do get my music from very strange places...
>>>>I hear Jesus, the Beatles, and the Heavenly Angels singing
>>>>" All You Need is Love " in 3 point harmony!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>SM***** It has come to my
attention that this world is based on a
>>>>>>>>>>>>system of trafficing in grievances...and
rarely may injustices be really righted within its constructs.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>This is a correct perception if one keeps in mind
that courts are not in the business of justice. Justice can be had if it is one's goal and
is pursued with reason WITH reasonable parties. Courts dispense money, not justice and
grievances are not really addressed. The assumption is that the money balances out the
scales and that justice is somehow achieved.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>88888SM How many "reasonable parties"
can one expect to encounter in that kind of scenario?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Few I would say. However, Chuck Colson (one of Nixon's boys) used
to keep a plague on his office wall that said, "When you have em by the balls, their
hearts and minds will follow". I find that holding the high ground inspires many to
reason.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>+++++Yes...and I have a copy of a saying on the plaque on the wall
of Dr. Bob's office ( one of A A's founding fathers) on the inspiring topic of humility. I
try to read at least once daily and take it to heart but there are days I truly wonder how
long it will take me to "be there".
>>>>Perhaps a secure grasp on the family jewels is the only way that sort of
crew could be escorted to the higher ground of reason until the minds and hearts find
their way up there.
>>>>
>>
>>In this instance, I find motivations of less importance than the doing.
>>
>>On the subject of plaques, a friend - knowing I am given to extreme focus when in
a conflict - gave me a plaque that hung over my desk and which I did read daily.
>>
>>Those who fight monsters should see to it that in the process they themselves do
not become a monster and when you look into the abyss, it also looks into you.
>>
>>I took it as reminder and a warning not to become that which you stand against.
>>
>>####### Yes, Dear One...that is what I was trying to say to you...
The paradox of waging jihad to eventuate peace is also
a factor.
To return to the topic of perception for a moment in light
of the above...
I have a favorite cartoon showing a man sitting on the hood
of his car looking out over a body of water and engaging an
enormous 'sea serpent' in conversation...he has apparently
just enquired of it whether it is the Loch Ness monster...
It responds to his query with " It all depends on your point
of view...to me YOU are a monster".
>>
>>>>>>>>>> There is of course a better way ever available as
you already know. Father blesses all our doings regardless of the means attempted if the
intention is pure.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>I can't say I agree with this. In a freewill
society, Father tends to sit back. First hand intervention is EXTREMELY rare. Earth is one
of those extremely rare exceptions. The truth is that there was no safe place within the
universe to hide certain things. The only truly safe place was with Father himself. Thus,
to impliment the engineering, Father HAD TO HAVE a first hand participatory role.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Now, from a spiritual point of view, I would be in
more agreement.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>88888SM The spiritual point of view is the better
way envisioned. Wouldn't you consider the TA's a direct intervention by Their mere
>>>>>>>>Presence hidden in the mind of their subjects?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I have a different perspective on TA's than you do, and I've noted
you have a tendency to allow them more than they really have and really do. My former TA
is a leader amongst her people and had never been to six or before Father. In the day to
day course of events, TA's are doing their job with subtle interventions in the way of
suggestions many ignore. Interventions from Father tend to be much more noticable and
frequently
>>>>>>can come directly from Him.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>The UB's diatribe glorifies the TA without telling you how low a
caste they are in the universal pecking order. Nor do they tell you that the Adams' and
Eves are 16th level angels - just barely angelic.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Here again, perspective holds value.
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>+++++ Yep...no way around this one. I do look at the TA in a very
different
>>>>way. As the actual individuated prepersonal Spirit that is Father's Gift
of His own Being...and fusion with It as the means of ascendancy for a particular order of
created sons...as in TA's is Us if we really exist as potentially immortal personalities
rather than quasi-sentient animals.
>>>>
>>
>>You achieved immortality the moment you were given a soul. I do hope you don't
talk like this in person:)
>>
>>####### Oh, Just hit me with a good joke or two that lets me laugh
at my own pretentiousness...you'll find I lighten up quickly.
>>>>+++++Adams and Eves are material Sons...reproducing by sexual rather
than
>>>>projective means. Just barely angelic seems an appropriate description.
>>>>
>>>>++++++Have you ever considered the idea that all life forms are simply
whatever
>>>>they are in a non-hierarchical manner...not 'higher or lower' or 'better
or worse' merely differing and then letting go of preferences?
>>
>>THAT!!!!! was Lucifer's original point!!!
>>####### Bless his heart...I hope everyone finally comes around
to understanding this!
>>It is the universal government that separates us, categorizes us and attempts to quantify us.
>>####### To heal that separation is the reason I AM existent.
>> Making a practice of appreciating Creator's authorship of His creatures...like
telling an artist or poet how meaningful their work is to you?
>>
>>I'd rather allow each their own perceptions instead of imposing a state sponsered
Melchezidek doctrine.
>>####### I do not concur that the sponsoring of doctrines has ever
disallowed anyone from having their own perceptions.
>>
>>Not that Father would need anything back from us but the effort to seek His
Presence seems the most worthy offering a Son can give to Him . Jesus demonstrated
communion with the Paradise Father as a pattern. Considering the vast gulf between His
perfection and human imperfection He must have given us a practical means to fellowship
with Him.
>>
>>Methinks you have a tendency to overthink a subject. If you wish to know Father or
Son's motivations - ASK THEM. Otherwise, you have theological and philsophical
speculations you attribute to them. High inappropriate in my opinion.
>>
>>####### OK...but I think I prefer to overthink than underthink!
I do ask...the responses have to sift through the dense
filter of mortality...you have used the term "incarnational
darkness" to describe your own situation and await
complete "repersonalization" do you not?
>> Father's own indwelling Spirit
>>
>>Father IS the spirit. He can't have an indwelling spirit.
>>####### The UB and the Bible both state "in Him we (literally) live
move and have our being". Encircuited is a term that makes
sense to me as I comprehend Spirit. My Spirit encompassed
and pervaded by Michael's and He by Father. A physical analogy
of this could be made as each cell in a material body
identifies itself genetically as part of the whole...none
by itself could even be "alive" yet each contributes to
the integrity that comprises the complete biological function-
ing of the particular life form. I hope this makes sense
through the awkwardness of the words. A clumsy comparison but
the best way that I can think of at present to convey the
concept.
>> and the Creator Son's Spirit of Truth are the means provided to make the
impossible possible. So you are correct that I esteem my TA as that with which I AM in
primary relationship.
>>
>>Perhaps it a position of familiarty with the Son which enables me to a different
perspective than you possess. You seem in need of an object of worship AND the Son is
indeed entitled to it. I see him as a person with a job. Sometimes a good job, and
sometimes a poor one. There is a carving at the Lair of a boy who carries a lizard on his
back. A child who carries the weight of a universe much as I carry the responsibility for
Earth.
>>
>>While both of our views are, in actuality, correct - I think mine holds the person
of the Son in greater perspective.
>>####### You do carry a lot of responsibility for Urantia as He does for
the universe of Nebadon. I have respect and regard for all who
seek to fulfill their responsibilities to Father well at every
level of existence. It is the Creator of All that I 'worship'
yet honor His Spirit Presence (direct or indirect) in all Life.
Michael is 'technically' my God in essence as time/space
'transformative' Creator of the conciousness that thinks of
itself as 'me' but in our personal relationship He has never in-
dicated He wishes anything from me other than a willingness to
be present with Him. If I 'worship' Him it is in the sense that
a young girl might admire, respect and 'hero-worship' a
magnificent older brother who is way more grown up than she
is...a beloved Friend and Teacher Who is really easy to "talk
to" yet always understands perfectly what is going on without
words even needing to be used. Always infinitely loving and
accepting including during corrective redirection which is
really difficult to explain rationally... His personality isn't
the least bit pretentious.
>>I'll ask you, when you come here - if I suitably impress you that 1. the UB is
wrong where I am concerned and 2. that I am truly in Father's service, are you going to
deify me? I have been called the god of the Earth in the old testament and summary
deification was granted many times over the course of history. Or will you see me as a
person with a job and relate to me as a man - one of many men. A similar vision of The Son
would be appropriate. On one hand you site Lucifer's doctrine of equality and then turn
around and ignore it as it applies to the higest of us. Thus, you perpetuate the very
separations that you say you don't care for.
>>####### One night while I was reading the Code of Love I was mulling
over in my mind the ah...job descriptions of Hanavard and
Lanaforge when I 'felt' the presence of something of 'something'
over the house as big as the aircraft carriers up at the naval
base. Not recognizing the energy I asked who had dropped in for
a visit and was told Lanaforge...so I said uh,I didn't realize
you made housecalls on mortals. He just said he would but no one
had called up and invited him over. You could safely say I was
duly impressed and overwhelmed...especially after he showed me
in panoramic epical detail the scope of his job description.
Big Guy...big job but the point is sense of humor to kid around
has been a significant factor in the realization that being
significantly awed by the amount of responsibility someone has
hardly equals 'deification'. I guess what I'm trying to say is
none of my encounters with even the 'Highest' beings I've met
has been what could be thought of as 'intimidating'. There is
a deep sense of loving communion and understanding that these
words are inadequate to describe.
Anyway I'm not easily impressed nor do I need to be. The UB does
not have to be 'wrong' to be the opinions of the writers. They
admit there is a lot they don't know know even as I do.
If Michael hadn't suggested you could probably use u someone like me as a friend right now
we wouldn't
be having this conversation.
>>
>>If it serves you purpose to believe there is a direct and divine connection
between Father and your TA - by all means - stick with it. I tell you though, it is not as
you present it. Few Ta's have ever had a direct link with Father. Your own soul is a much
better 'link' than attempting to use a TA as an intermediary. Furthermore, were you to
have audience with Father, your TA would be excluded from it.
>>
>>This fact speaks for itself.
>>####### Perhaps my thoughts as I try to word them are not able to
express what is my experience. I have another on line friend
I have met on UBRON that uses the word soul to mean more than
the TA's transcript. Without my TA I do not think I have a Spirit
identity for the personality to express through at this point
...how could a videotape or an ego meet
with Father? I have gradually assimilated UB terminology
through the years but somehow words like mind, soul and spirit
have other understandings than those I use them to convey.
As Always Only Love. Steffani.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
05/10/00 at 5:40 pm
Caligastia:
>>
>>>>####### Nope. I would not have "people" be other than who they
>> choose to be. This decision is only for Me...not me.
>> In the day to day life on the planet I shovel my full quota of
>> uh..."fertilizer" and many days even more.
>> It is by holding onto the "above the battleground" perspective
>> while going through it that I can avoid getting caught up in it.
>>
>>
Agreed
>>>>As in "don't sweat the small stuff" and everything that seems
to be happening in time/space evolutionary universes other than Love's manifestation is
not only small but nonexistent from an eternal perspective. I think I have heard this
expressed as "if it ain't Love it ain't Real".
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>This last comment makes me think of a phrase, "You're gonna love each
other EVEN IF IT KILLS YOU". I agree with not sweating the little things.
>>
>>>>
>>####### Love is the only Reality I acknowledge...at least from
>> Higher Ground. In daily living and interactions with "others"
>> it surely will "kill" the little false self that arrogantly
>> confuses itself with Me. Anyone who mistakes meekness for
>> weakness to the point of attempting to "run a game" is usually
>> confounded by the result. This is usually an entertaining lesson >> for all
involved and quite harmless. I do meet a few who believe
>> that because "winning through intimidation" works on the streets
>> it will be effective in getting what they think they want in a
>> different setting. Often finding there is a better alternative
>> available than they dreamed of or imagined and that another actually does have
their interests at heart without being "forced" to initiates an attitudinal
reversal that may actually have lasting consequences.
>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Also expedient is holding an out of time
perspective of Light and Life as a long range project in eternal completed perfection as
held in His Mind.
>>>>
>>>>You've hit upon a point here. What makes you think the universe HAS an out
of time perspective? They do where mortality is concerned because they can look down into
the line. Yet, from their own level, they're as blind as we are doing linear.
>>>>
>>>>#######The word universe to me means mostly an astronomical
"domain"
>> within the cosmos not the viewpoint of the beings living in it.
>> If you interpret my usage to mean the "political dominion"
>> of a hierarchical structure this at times seems to be confusing
>> our attempts at communication. I will in the future to try
>> to clarify the meaning I intend for the term if not crystal
>> crystal clear by context.
>>>>
>>>>
When I say universe - I mean the ruling government. Space - seems hardly relevant.
>>>>>>>>>>>>88888SM Satan is not a personality I
would have considered as universal at this point...seems a bit of a switcheroo from the UB
story?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Satan spawns from the universe. A point of origin and a
basis for the understanding of a mentality. However, consider this perspective. He just
might be doing his job - poor though it may be.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>+++++Everyone "spawns" from the universe...where else is
there to spawn from?
>>>>
>>>>Incorrect. Those born of earth, spawned from earth. The mortal soul here
had no existence before earth - thus, they did not spawn FROM the universe.
>>>>
>>>>
>> ####### I can see here a good example of my usage being confusing.
>> I did mean the "political" context in speaking of Satan as
>> a personality...then I jumped right into using it to mean
>> the entire cosmos in which this and all planets are located
>> in the very next sentence. Apology for obfuscating my own
>> point respectfully extended. Do you then refer to those mortal
>> souls having Urth as their evolutionary home world as not
>> being "spawned from the universe" because the 'declaration
>> of succession' removed this sphere from the dominion of the
>> existing universe government?
>>
You have no knowledge of, or experience with, the universe either as a spacial construct
or its government. You do not reflect their attitudes and you never will. YOU were granted
true freedom of choice. Thus, you did not spawn from the universe. I did, man didn't.
>>
>>>>>>All of the Beings who are now on the UB's shitlist of rebellious
personalities functioned within its' constructs until a moment ago from any eternal
Being's perspective. To the Supreme Being these matters are probably viewed with all the
significance of boys having a snowball fight in the schoolyard.
>>>>
>>>>Not so. This is not a schoolyard pissing contest. The fate of six
universes hangs in the balance and is centered on what happens here on Earth.
>>>>
>
>>
>>>>
>>>> I do remain unclear as to the function of engineering a
"separation". No doubt because I'm trying to reconstuct what occurred with the
finite mortal peabrain and key pieces of the equation are still absent. Satan as Lucifer's
#1 theoretically might just be doing his job.
>>>>>>As our Creator Son demonstrated so well during His mortal
incarnation as Jesus one can be virtually perfectly behaved and still manage to be
perceived as blasphemous, crazy, and keeping company with sinners and
>>>>>>"the Prince of the Devils" not only by strangers but
sometimes by family
>>>>>>members. He pissed off enough "high ranking" people who
fancied themselves sufficiently important and insulted by His mere existence to warrant
murder by torture. By living as a human I am having an excellent opportunity to understand
insanity from the inside out even as He did.
>>>>>>I appreciate the fact He did this first so that I may understand
it in the Light of shared experience. Human perceptions are unstable, unreasonable
>>>>>>and capricious.
>>>>
>>>>I disagree. Human motivations are as predictable as sunrise IF you
understand the causal agents. Ironically, the same psyche exists in the universe.
>>>>
>>>>####### I do agree complete about motivations. When I speak of
>> 'perceptions' I refer more to the lens through which
>> circumstances around situations or persons form into opinions
>> that can be altered by 'spin'... and used by the unscrupulous
>> to manipulate and control anyone who abnegates the responsi-
>> bility to think for himself. Humans to my observation are
>> disinclined to utilize the option of waiting until they have
>> enough information to form a reasonable opinion prior to making
>> one.
Your arguement fails in that you place a hierarchy of miscreanse separating those who
allow others to manipulate them from those who perform the deed.
You also seem to allocate greater responibility to the manipulator than to the
manipulatee. Your carte blance statement about humans being unwilling to wait - seems
arrogant and elitist. TOLERANCE recognizes that EVERYONE exists at their own evolutionary
moment. That others do not rise to your expectation is an 'oh well', live with it.
>>
>>>>..hardly a sufficient basis for making good decisions in-
>>>>>>volving 'free will'. I cannot help thinking that evolutionary
>>>>>>animal origin is a significant handicap to making spiritual
progress.
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Again, I disagree. The imposition of intellect over animal instincts is a
key factor and first step on the road to ascendancy.
>>>>
>>>>####### Sure...but some one who starts out as say a seraphim doesn't
>> have to deal with climbing out of the primordial ooze to even
>> begin setting out on the road to ascendancy.
Oh really? Where did you come by this assumption? There are literally thousands of
angels are there REALLY terrified that I'm going to get loose.
Their fear is greater than their reason. The difference here isn't one of psychological
make up - its the fact that the circumstances that exist here on EArth don't exist there
and they NEVER HAVE TO CONFRONT THE ISSUES.
Seraphim or human being, the mental and emotional makeup is mostly the same.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>I have nothing here to be forgiven for,
least of all by myself. You are right, however, that service of this nature does leave
scars. You file this under, 'if you can't stand the heat - get outta the kitchen'
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>88888SM If the heat stays on so long that
the kitchen catches fire and burns down one can no longer cook in that location. Burn
scars are really ugly and make skin thick and inflexible too.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Then you live with it. such is the acceptance of 'thy will be done'
>>
>>>>####### Yes!
>>>>On the subject of plaques, a friend - knowing I am given to extreme
focus when in a conflict - gave me a plaque that hung over my desk and which I did read
daily.
>>>>
>>>>Those who fight monsters should see to it that in the process they
themselves do not become a monster and when you look into the abyss, it also looks into
you.
>>>>
>>>>I took it as reminder and a warning not to become that which you stand
against.
>>>>
>>>>####### Yes, Dear One...that is what I was trying to say to you...
>> The paradox of waging jihad to eventuate peace is also
>> a factor.
>> To return to the topic of perception for a moment in light
>> of the above...
>> I have a favorite cartoon showing a man sitting on the hood
>> of his car looking out over a body of water and engaging an
>> enormous 'sea serpent' in conversation...he has apparently
>> just enquired of it whether it is the Loch Ness monster...
>> It responds to his query with " It all depends on your point
>> of view...to me YOU are a monster".
>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> There is of course a better way ever
available as you already know. Father blesses all our doings regardless of the means
attempted if the intention is pure.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>I can't say I agree with this. In a
freewill society, Father tends to sit back. First hand intervention is EXTREMELY rare.
Earth is one of those extremely rare exceptions. The truth is that there was no safe place
within the universe to hide certain things. The only truly safe place was with Father
himself. Thus, to impliment the engineering, Father HAD TO HAVE a first hand participatory
role.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>Now, from a spiritual point of view, I
would be in more agreement.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>88888SM The spiritual point of view is the
better way envisioned. Wouldn't you consider the TA's a direct intervention by Their mere
>>>>>>>>>>Presence hidden in the mind of their subjects?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>I have a different perspective on TA's than you do, and
I've noted you have a tendency to allow them more than they really have and really do. My
former TA is a leader amongst her people and had never been to six or before Father. In
the day to day course of events, TA's are doing their job with subtle interventions in the
way of suggestions many ignore. Interventions from Father tend to be much more noticable
and frequently
>>>>>>>>can come directly from Him.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>The UB's diatribe glorifies the TA without telling you how
low a caste they are in the universal pecking order. Nor do they tell you that the Adams'
and Eves are 16th level angels - just barely angelic.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Here again, perspective holds value.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>+++++ Yep...no way around this one. I do look at the TA in a very
different
>>>>>>way. As the actual individuated prepersonal Spirit that is
Father's Gift of His own Being...and fusion with It as the means of ascendancy for a
particular order of created sons...as in TA's is Us if we really exist as potentially
immortal personalities rather than quasi-sentient animals.
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>You achieved immortality the moment you were given a soul. I do hope you
don't talk like this in person:)
>>>>
>>>>####### Oh, Just hit me with a good joke or two that lets me laugh
>> at my own pretentiousness...you'll find I lighten up quickly.
>>
>>>>>>+++++Adams and Eves are material Sons...reproducing by sexual
rather than
>>>>>>projective means. Just barely angelic seems an appropriate
description.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>++++++Have you ever considered the idea that all life forms are
simply whatever
>>>>>>they are in a non-hierarchical manner...not 'higher or lower' or
'better or worse' merely differing and then letting go of preferences?
>>>>
>>>>THAT!!!!! was Lucifer's original point!!!
>>
>>>>####### Bless his heart...I hope everyone finally comes around
>> to understanding this!
>>
>>>>It is the universal government that separates us, categorizes us and
attempts to quantify us.
>>
>>>>####### To heal that separation is the reason I AM existent.
>>
>>>> Making a practice of appreciating Creator's authorship of His
creatures...like telling an artist or poet how meaningful their work is to you?
>>>>
>>>>I'd rather allow each their own perceptions instead of imposing a state
sponsered Melchezidek doctrine.
>>
>>>>####### I do not concur that the sponsoring of doctrines has ever
>> disallowed anyone from having their own perceptions.
Oh really? Common Stef, you amaze me sometimes. Ever hear about the Spanish Inquisition? Factor that on a universal scale and you've got the right imagery. Sure, you can have your own perceptions but you damned well better keep them to yourself. Either that or you'd find the stake uncomfortably warm.
>>>>
>>>>Not that Father would need anything back from us but the effort to seek
His Presence seems the most worthy offering a Son can give to Him . Jesus demonstrated
communion with the Paradise Father as a pattern. Considering the vast gulf between His
perfection and human imperfection He must have given us a practical means to fellowship
with Him.
>>>>
>>>>Methinks you have a tendency to overthink a subject. If you wish to know
Father or Son's motivations - ASK THEM. Otherwise, you have theological and philsophical
speculations you attribute to them. High inappropriate in my opinion.
>>>>
>>>>####### OK...but I think I prefer to overthink than underthink!
>> I do ask...the responses have to sift through the dense
>> filter of mortality...you have used the term "incarnational
>> darkness" to describe your own situation and await
>> complete "repersonalization" do you not?
>>
I have, but let's face it - I'm really good at what I do:):):)
>>>> Father's own indwelling Spirit
>>>>
>>>>Father IS the spirit. He can't have an indwelling spirit.
>>
>>>>####### The UB and the Bible both state "in Him we (literally) live
>> move and have our being".
Translation: Within the soul, which is made of a piece of his living being, our personalities live.
Encircuited is a term that makes
>> sense to me as I comprehend Spirit. My Spirit encompassed
>> and pervaded by Michael's and He by Father.
Your soul is enclosed in FATHER'S BEING. It is also affected by the vibratory harmonic
of The Son as that frequency spans the entire universe.
There is a science to these things.
A physical analogy
>> of this could be made as each cell in a material body
>> identifies itself genetically as part of the whole...none
>> by itself could even be "alive" yet each contributes to
>> the integrity that comprises the complete biological function-
>> ing of the particular life form. I hope this makes sense
>> through the awkwardness of the words. A clumsy comparison but
>> the best way that I can think of at present to convey the
>> concept.
>>
I think I just said the same thing in fewer less glorious words.
>>>> and the Creator Son's Spirit of Truth are the means provided to make the impossible possible. So you are correct that I esteem my TA as that with which I AM in primary relationship.
Holding your TA with esteem is one thing, glorifying your TA to be more than they are capable of is 'unreasonable'.
>>>>
>>>>Perhaps it a position of familiarty with the Son which enables me to a
different perspective than you possess. You seem in need of an object of worship AND the
Son is indeed entitled to it. I see him as a person with a job. Sometimes a good job, and
sometimes a poor one. There is a carving at the Lair of a boy who carries a lizard on his
back. A child who carries the weight of a universe much as I carry the responsibility for
Earth.
>>>>
>>>>While both of our views are, in actuality, correct - I think mine holds
the person of the Son in greater perspective.
>>
>>>>####### You do carry a lot of responsibility for Urantia as He does for
>> the universe of Nebadon. I have respect and regard for all who
>> seek to fulfill their responsibilities to Father well at every
>> level of existence. It is the Creator of All that I 'worship'
>> yet honor His Spirit Presence (direct or indirect) in all Life.
>> Michael is 'technically' my God in essence as time/space
>> 'transformative'
Now that's a new one on me a 'technical god'
Creator of the conciousness that thinks of
>> itself as 'me' but in our personal relationship He has never in-
>> dicated He wishes anything from me other than a willingness to
>> be present with Him.
He wants you to succeed - but the choice is yours alone.
If I 'worship' Him it is in the sense that
>> a young girl might admire, respect and 'hero-worship' a
>> magnificent older brother who is way more grown up than she
>> is...
Ok, I know what 13 year old adoration is. Consider this, it is Father's wish that one day
we rise to be with him NOT has his children but as equals. Factor your adoration against
this and ask yourself does it serve good purpose to remain an adoring adolescent or to
grow?
I'd like to mention also, that I am having this dialogue with you using uncommon candor. I do not generally seek to challenge people as I am with you. I figure you've got it coming:):)
a beloved Friend and Teacher Who is really easy to "talk
>> to" yet always understands perfectly what is going on without
>> words even needing to be used. Always infinitely loving and
>> accepting including during corrective redirection which is
>> really difficult to explain rationally... His personality isn't
>> the least bit pretentious.
>>
>>>>I'll ask you, when you come here - if I suitably impress you that 1. the
UB is wrong where I am concerned and 2. that I am truly in Father's service, are you going
to deify me? I have been called the god of the Earth in the old testament and summary
deification was granted many times over the course of history. Or will you see me as a
person with a job and relate to me as a man - one of many men. A similar vision of The Son
would be appropriate. On one hand you site Lucifer's doctrine of equality and then turn
around and ignore it as it applies to the higest of us. Thus, you perpetuate the very
separations that you say you don't care for.
>>
>>>>####### One night while I was reading the Code of Love I was mulling
>> over in my mind the ah...job descriptions of Hanavard and
>> Lanaforge when I 'felt' the presence of something of 'something'
>> over the house as big as the aircraft carriers up at the naval
>> base. Not recognizing the energy I asked who had dropped in for
>> a visit and was told Lanaforge...so I said uh,I didn't realize
>> you made housecalls on mortals. He just said he would but no one
>> had called up and invited him over. You could safely say I was
>> duly impressed and overwhelmed...especially after he showed me
>> in panoramic epical detail the scope of his job description.
>> Big Guy...big job but the point is sense of humor to kid around
>> has been a significant factor in the realization that being
>> significantly awed by the amount of responsibility someone has
>> hardly equals 'deification'. I guess what I'm trying to say is
>> none of my encounters with even the 'Highest' beings I've met
>> has been what could be thought of as 'intimidating'. There is
>> a deep sense of loving communion and understanding that these
>> words are inadequate to describe.
>> Anyway I'm not easily impressed nor do I need to be. The UB does
>> not have to be 'wrong' to be the opinions of the writers. They
>> admit there is a lot they don't know know even as I do.
>> If Michael hadn't suggested you could probably use u someone like me as a friend
right now we wouldn't
>> be having this conversation.
>>
Incorrectamundo. I HAVE FREEWILL. Michael does not engage my behaviors any more than he
does yours nor does Father. I am a fully self contained person who chooses his own path.
That my journey is in the service of Father and Son is my choice - not Michael's or
Father's. You see, I am not inclined to be a follower. Instead, I associate with others
and do so because it is my will. This is not the product of arrogance or ego. I'd add that
I am even more disinclined to 'use' you or anyone else. Greg and Al have chosen to
associate with me persuant to their will. They're free to stay or go anytime they wish.
That I have chosen to share my findings with you and the others who have been invited is my recognition of Father's wishes in these matters. Again, a personal choice.
When the day arrives that you can view Father and Son as people you will have made a substantial leap forward. How many Hosannas can they hear before they've heard it all?
Cal
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
05/11/00 at 2:20 am
Steffani Murray:
>>When I say universe - I mean the ruling government. Space - seems hardly
relevant.
>>+++ I'll keep that in mind. The 'final frontier' irrelevant? And to think
Star Trek has always been my idea of heaven...
You have no knowledge of, or experience with, the universe either as a spacial construct or its government. You do not reflect their attitudes and you never will. YOU were granted true freedom of choice. Thus, you did not spawn from the universe. I did, man didn't.
>>+++ As a human this is so except for what I have read in the UB,
a few things friends who aren't from here have taught me
and a little space adventure minus the body one time.
What about this TA in my mind? It seems to have knowledge of
and experience of both that it has been willing to impart.
> circumstances around situations or persons form into opinions
>>that can be altered by 'spin'... and used by the unscrupulous
>>to manipulate and control anyone who abnegates the responsi-
>>bility to think for himself. Humans to my observation are